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Possible valve spring choice?

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

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panic

Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:53 pm

Possible valve spring choice?

I just noticed a fairly interesting spring in the Crower catalog, #68180.
Looks like it will fit inside the 45 cover (only .010" bigger than stock), accept the stock collar assembly, but big increase in tension but needs a .4125" thick spacer to do this.
45 spring is about 128 lbs. per inch deflection, 60 lbs. seated, 100 lbs. @ .312", 108 lbs. @ .375".
The Crower is 212 lbs. per inch deflection, 92 lbs. seated, 175 lbs. open to .375".
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37ULH

Posts: 687

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:01 am

Location: somerset, oh usa

Post Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:18 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Good find. The springs that I had made are 290#/" and seated pressure can be easily set as they were designed to use the original WR guides, therefore if W or K series, a spacer is required.
On my WLAK I used the stock K upper collars with no additional setup required.
Just fired it today and ooohhh yeah!
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44dwarf

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:22 pm

Location: north central Ma.

Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:11 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

37.
Couple of questions for you.
When increasing the seated presure did you investigate additinal help for the cam and lifters? Something like Dicronite? Ya there rollers but the loads gone up 1.5 times.
What about the valves? Are they new? Is the head to stem area changed from stock? (lots of times with V8 stuff we have to use a non undercut stem to keep the head from snapping off BUT this impacts flow in to the chamber)
On the Keeper end of the stem are they new keepers and are they hardened?

Just wondering not tring to pee in the sandbox.

44
Last edited by 44dwarf on Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco"
"Transplant organs, Don't bury them!"
Why dwarf? 5/8 scale race cars! http://www.dwarfcarracing.com
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panic

Post Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:07 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

The tappet rollers already get 375 lbs. in a Sportster.
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44dwarf

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:22 pm

Location: north central Ma.

Post Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:49 am

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Great so no worries then.
Thanks Panic.

44
"Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco"
"Transplant organs, Don't bury them!"
Why dwarf? 5/8 scale race cars! http://www.dwarfcarracing.com
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panic

Post Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:08 am

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

The spring load is pretty easy to figure out.
For the valves and seats, it's the open spring pressure ÷ the surface area of the valve seat (OD × Pi × seat width):
45: 1.625 with .090" seat and 100 lb. spring is 218 lbs. per square inch, with 173 lb. spring it's 377 lbs. per square inch.
Sportster: 1.9375" with .060" seat and 250 lb. spring is 685 lbs. per square inch.

For the tappet, cam lobe and cam bearings, multiply the spring pressure × rocker arm ratio (for flathead just use 1:1):
45: 100 lbs. × 1:1 = 100 lbs.
Sportster: 250 lbs. × 1.5:1 = 375 lbs.
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barry

Posts: 300

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:01 am

Location: wooster oh usa

Post Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:37 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

i ran 37's springs in my WR with KR f grinds.. shimmed 30 thou to coil bind and roller tappets... no troubles at all
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37ULH

Posts: 687

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:01 am

Location: somerset, oh usa

Post Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:48 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Sorry I haven't responded sooner but have been out o town.
I used KH intake valves and yes a little reshaping/ lightening was done. stock bottom collars and keepers were used.
KHK cams
V*= vintage , vtwin??? Trying to cut them to KR specifications? What manufacturer or supplier?
Went over 95mph this weekend on it's first pass.
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bsatom

Posts: 63

Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 12:01 am

Location: mckinleyville ca usa

Post Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

So it appears KNS does not offer the big intakes or stiff springs anymore. So, I did a search and found this thread. I have 8 of the Crower #68150 springs here as of today. I just did a pressure test and Panic's figures are right on. I am using Chevy 235 intakes, so for a seated pressure of 90lbs, I went with .425 spacers on the exhaust and .550 spacers on the intakes. The intakes are different because of the Chevy collar needing more spacing for the 90 lbs seat pressure. Pressure at .375 is 173 lbs on my Rimac spring tester. THANK YOU PANIC! I have been combing through my Big Book again by the way. So much food for thought and application. In case you wanted to know...I am doing two 4 5/8 strokers with hot cams, big intakes, stiff springs and sportster oil pump with piston oilers. I did one in 2008 with KNS parts. Delta are grinding my cams for [about] fourty five bucks a lobe, Chevy 235 intakes with locks were nine bucks each, and the springs were [roughly] eighty five bucks for all eight.
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helsingborg

Posts: 82

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:08 pm

Post Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Bsatom, you posted a vídeo on youtube of your wl 4 5/8 stroker some years ago, didn't you? If I remember correctly it also had bigger intake valves, a British transmission and Sporty pump, right? So, what about that bike? Can you tell us about how the 'performance combo' has performed since then? How did you like it? Thanks.
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GuS

Posts: 312

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 12:01 am

Location: Bergen, Norway

Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:08 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Bsatom.
It seem like KNS still lists their big valves and heavy duty springs.
http://victorylibrary.com/kns/parts.htm
I've used their big valve and springs with good experience and am about to build another 45 with big intake valve.

But if they dont have the big valves anymore, time to look for another supplier.

Who is your supplier of the Chevy 235 intake valve, lock and collar?

Regards

GuS
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Tim 435

Posts: 741

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:01 am

Location: Pa. , USA

Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

NAPA can order them but I think they're made in China like most of their stuff, Tim
Vintage roadracing, Class C, AHRMA # 335
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GuS

Posts: 312

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 12:01 am

Location: Bergen, Norway

Post Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:32 am

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Tim
Thanks.
NAPA wont be to any help to me as they dont ship across the pond.

GuS
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MOLDTHREAD

Posts: 122

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am

Location: BRANFORD, CT

Post Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Hi Gus,

I have springs that fit in the WL, WR, & early K's that take the hi lift Kr cam profiles and are the equivilent spring rates of the dual spring KR's. They work with all the standard HD parts.
Bruce Argetsinger
AHRMA Dirt Track # 67J
www.enfieldracing.com
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bsatom

Posts: 63

Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 12:01 am

Location: mckinleyville ca usa

Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Yeah, that bike was fun. I took it off Youtube when I sold it. It had KNS hot cams, KNS big valves, KNS stiff springs, Sporty oil pump, piston oilers, cam needle bearings (which I do not do any more as Buell used all cam bushings in the XB9/12 with no problems), ported and relieved. 4 5/8 stroke with the pre cam ground T&O stroker pistons. Here is how I accidently got them to not seize due to the lack of cam grind(which they "solved" by hand sanding every piston very crudely on a belt sander, leaving less than one inch of thrust face on the skirts?!?). Anyway, my cylinders had to go out to .007 piston clearance to clean up. I had a problem. Swain Tech has a skirt coating called PC-9 that can be applied at .002 thick just to tighten up a piston in its bore. I did that and had .003 clearance that never seized on me with hard summer freeway runs. That bike was very streetable and also turned on like a 2 stroke at about 3900rpm. That bike ran with the big twin Evo bikes no problem, until they decided to see if they could leave me. They could with 80 cid of hopped up OHV engine and 5 speed trannys. I am building another with a Harley 4 speed right now instead of the Norton Commando trans. I make my own belt drives too.
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helsingborg

Posts: 82

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:08 pm

Post Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

Bsatom, thanks for the feedback. Good to hear about your experience with the piston coating. I've always wondered if i't worth the expense.
PS. Pa, sorry for kidnapping the post. :)
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4720

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:04 pm

Re: Possible valve spring choice?

helsingborg wrote:Bsatom, thanks for the feedback. Good to hear about your experience with the piston coating. I've always wondered if i't worth the expense.
PS. Pa, sorry for kidnapping the post. :)


I see nothing....I hear nothing....I know nothing.....Just funning Bro. You are good to go.

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