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Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:19 pm

Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Today I got a chance to work on the UL for the first time since early October. Between hunting and going back to work (yeah I get the summers off. Sweet!) I had to suspend project Knucklebolt for a while. Today I got a fire going in the garage (in the wood stove!) put the generator in, then decided to attack the kicker problem.

Woody mentioned that perhaps the bushing that the gear rides on, which mates to the kicker gear "clutch" gear, was too tight, and that wasn't letting the gear spring back. So that was the first thing I checked. I found just the opposite, the gear is quite "wobbly" on the shaft/bushing. Would that be my problem? Kicker skips and slips. Anyhow, spent a lot of time just pulling the cover off and on, trying different "things", spacing the gear on the cover differently, etc. Sometimes it seems to work okay...but sometimes still get a skip and a bang. Again, the gear on the main shaft is very wobbly.

Trouble #2: As I was kicking over of the engine, playing with the kicker, oil started puking profusely out the breather, below the cam cover. WTF? This engine is a rebuild by an unknown builder. Would an incorrectly timed breather gear cause that? Or would one assume the return pump is not working, and I've kicked it over enough to fill up the cases? Anyhow, decided to call it quits for the night, and see what you all might have to say about it.

Thanks in advance...I'm sure the collective brain-trust here should have some ideas.

Thanks, ken.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:41 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

A bad check ball in the oil pump will let oil into the cases. When there is too much oil it gets evacuated through the breather.
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:01 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Thanks for the response, you are saying that the oil has drained into the cases, which could be as it's been sitting for a while, and I didn't/haven't really turn(ed) the engine over all that much. I suppose I should drain the case, and then pull the return line, kick a bit and see if anything comes out of it. At any rate a sticky check ball would be better than someone having forgot to key the oil pump drive gear to the shaft. Then I'd wonder what else they did wrong!

Now, if I can just figure out the kicker.

Hope all is well in good old L.A., lived in the valley from age six to eighteen.

k.
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:51 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Oh crap. The crank case drain plug is too close to the frame, won't come out. !!!! But, pulled the scavenger pump line and it's pumping, so it is the check valve/ball.

However, the darn kicker is kicking my butt...I can't figure out why it's skipping, other than the wobbly gear. Also the kick lever won't stand straight up, no matter where I put the gear on it, always has a forward lean to it.

k.
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Just sell it. You obviously don't have a clue!
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4653

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:33 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

wilko wrote:Just sell it. You obviously don't have a clue!


And I assume you knew everything there is to know and learn the day you were born ?? Cut it out with the sarcastic comments !!!!!!!
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:50 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Don't worry about the excess oil in the cases. Just put a pan under it and it will all be removed shortly after you start it. But you need to burnish the ball seats and probably replace the balls in the feed pump. Don't lap or grind the seats.
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Gotcha, thanks. Pan already in position. Don't know how I missed the plug and frame interface, sure spent a lot of time making sure everything else fit. Hopefully I won't have to pull the engine soon, but if I do I'll take care of that. Now...back to the kicker.

k.
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PanPal

Posts: 13

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:56 am

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Try a new bushing in the wobbely gear. Not brass, but bronze is better. It should NOT be a sweet fit but rather a little on the loose side but not too wobbely. The shaft spins in this bushing constantly so a sweet fit may cause it to heat up and fuse to the shaft. If the teeth are good try to reuse the starter gear. Most Ropops are junk.
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:53 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Thanks...I am thinking that it's way too wobbly, which isn't letting it mesh up very well. Certainly is not helping!

k.
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45Brit

Posts: 1399

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:02 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Regarding the frame/drain plug interface, is it that the plug won't come out, or that you need a special spanner? I have a ground-down ring spanner, about half normal thickness, that I made long ago for a job of that sort.

I had a panhead with exactly the kicker problem you describe and never did solve it. In the end I just sold the bike, for various reasons... Bought a Shovelhead and never gave it another thought as I haven't ridden a kickstart Big Twin since :oops: 45s don't seem to suffer from thus, probably because the reduced stresses from the smaller engine and low compression mean it doesn't become a problem
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

On the plug, the problem is that it's not a stock frame. It's a Paughco frame, which I am 100% pleased with, it was my bad not noticing that the frame was very close to the plug, I could have flattened the frame slightly and there would be room. As the plug threads out, it hits the frame before it is un-threaded. An extra 1/8th of an inch and it would come out.

I rode a Knucklehead for 20 years, and never had a kicker problem...and my 45 before that had a big twin 4-speed, and again, never a problem. !! So, I've never had to mess with it before. Usually just put it together and it works. !!!

k.
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:41 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Pa wrote:
wilko wrote:Just sell it. You obviously don't have a clue!


And I assume you knew everything there is to know and learn the day you were born ?? Cut it out with the sarcastic comments !!!!!!!

Stick your site up your arse Pa. It's full of jonnycomelately biffs anyway!
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Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1543

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

The kicker problem may well be that the bush is too loose. A couple of years ago I had a stubborn kicker problem and I took an early shovel kick cover, drilled it out and bushed it, then cut it in half so that the remaining part held the kicker and gear, and could be bolted to the tranny. Then you could clearly see the tranny mainshaft and how the kicker gears meshed. Best thing I ever did. Finally sorted out that problem with the best combo of gears, etc. Used it several times since.
DD
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45Brit

Posts: 1399

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:00 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Useful piece if info about the Paughco frame there.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:25 am

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

That would be a great tool for every shop to have...wish I had one. I ordered a new bushing last night.

On the frame, I really should have been checking/or have checked for that. With the engine out of the frame, and before I painted it, it would have been a very simple thing to just dimple/flatten the frame at that location, and also make sure the plug was not longer than it needed to be. Could have fitted that all up. Was my bad, not Paughcos. It's a very nice frame. Will do that the next time the engine is out, but I sure don't want to pull it now as I'm getting real close to firing her up for the first time.

k.
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4653

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

wilko wrote:
Pa wrote:
wilko wrote:Just sell it. You obviously don't have a clue!


And I assume you knew everything there is to know and learn the day you were born ?? Cut it out with the sarcastic comments !!!!!!!

Stick your site up your arse Pa. It's full of jonnycomelately biffs anyway!


So be it.....you are now history
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:35 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Darn...I'm gonna miss that guy.
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45Brit

Posts: 1399

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:29 am

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

I usually build a bike up and ride it before doing any serious cosmetic work, to the extent that I often don't get the paint and chrome done at all...
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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knucklebolt

Posts: 199

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:43 pm

Re: Oh I got troubles, kicker and puking oil.

Probably not a bad idea. That's why I didn't worry too much about the paint job this time around. After she proves herself, I'll tear it down some winter and do the paint up right.

k.
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