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Wo's running a Brit Trans?

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Justin

Posts: 14

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:43 pm

Post Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:13 am

Wo's running a Brit Trans?

My Triumph Pre-Unit trans arrived a few days ago and it's got me tickled pink! :D
I'm quite excited to have a foot shifter behind my ol' 45!

Of course I have questions for all the guys who have also have british trannies!

Such as:
-Chain or belt primary? Do belts stretch/need adjustment?
-What front pulley (size) are you using (especially if using a belt!)
-Does anyone sell a kit in the U.S....?
Or heck, even anywhere?


I'd love to run a belt-drive primary on my 45, and I know it can be done, I just need to find out who supplies what!!
:mrgreen:
Thanks!!
(and YES, I already have the "victory" printed literature!)
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45Brit

Posts: 1414

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

there are three main problems, assuming that you don't have the Victory book which covers it all in detail.

Belt drive, good question. The belts sold for conversions on 45s don't fit; you will need to fabricate a front pulley using the inner taper from a H-D unit and the outer ring from a British one. The belt will need sourcing - no British unit will be long enough - go to an industrial supplier with the original belt and total length for this question.


1) the primary chain sizes are different, as are the sprocket sizes. The 45 front sprocket is considerably larger than the British equivalent, as is the clutch. You will need to get an old sprocket, grind or mill the teeth off and fit a new tooth ring of the required size and alignment.

2) the alignment of the chain will need attention, assuming that you have the engine and rear wheel in the original offsets then this will be evident. This is done by offsetting the gearbox

3) the back wheel will need reversing as the rear drive chain will now be on the other side. There are various ways of doing this, all require some sort of welding to the brake anchor

reversing the wheel means that you will now need a revised rear brake linkage to suit. You also need a revised gear linkage. Opinions vary on this, but the two main alternatives are;

a) use the clutch pedal as a gear pedal. This means you need a linkage across the frame behind or under the engine. Use the original brake pedal as a brake pedal, which means you need a cross-over shaft like a panhead, or a cable linkage

b) use the original brake pedal as a gear lever. This isn't entirely satisfactory but it IS much simpler to do, it just needs a rod from the pedal and a cut-down gear pedal on the selector shaft as a crank. This means that you can fit a rod or cable to activate the ( now ) left side brake; a servicar clutch pedal is ideal for this.


you will now need a clutch lever and cable to fit your handlebars. Triumph 1" dia levers are ideal for this, H-D panhead style levers can be used but you will need to make a cable.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:38 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Is it a slickshift?
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Justin

Posts: 14

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:43 pm

Post Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:18 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

I don't know actually.
Doubtful though.
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Galea

Posts: 41

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:20 pm

Post Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

I went for a chain primary on mine.
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Much easier to get an engine sprocket modified.
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45Brit

Posts: 1414

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:01 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

mine has a belt drive, but I don't think I'd go to that much trouble again. For the amount of power you will ever get out of any 45, a modern chain will handle it easily and it's a much simpler conversion
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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Moonshine

Posts: 3

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:59 pm

Location: Montana, USA

Post Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:12 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

The kits are out there (British Cycle, etc.), minus the engine sprocket conversion. You are on your own for that. Mine is belt driven, which turned out nice and works great so far. I do agree with 45Brit that the engine spocket conversion to belt drive was alot of work. I would look at the chain drive option if I ever did this again. My main reason for doing this was not to worry about oiling the primary. However with a single o-ring sealed chain, it probably would'nt be a big deal. I used a BSA A10 belt conversion with a Triumph style clutch running a BSA rear wheel. Good luck!
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pelee islander

User avatar

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am

Location: Canada

Post Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:28 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Has anyone using a british gear box on a 45 adapted a 45 clutch to the british gear box instead of using a british clutch?

I prefer to use the 45 dry clutch as opposed to the wet british clutch. Anything to look out for?

Thanks
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Most british clutches run wet or dry. Keep it simple.
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RUBONE

Posts: 380

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:49 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Running a unit clutch drum instead of pre-unit makes the chain the same as 45, double row #35 and sprocket fabrication is not necessary.
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pelee islander

User avatar

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am

Location: Canada

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:14 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Rubone, what year clutch basket would I use and will it fit the shaft of a preunit gear box?

Also, how does the roller bearing get lubrication if the clutch is run dry?

Thanks.
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Beachdog

Posts: 765

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 12:01 am

Location: CA USA

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

It's been 6 or 8 years since I put a triumph gearbox behind a 45 motor, but I remember what I did. I used a WR Daytona motor sprocket which is double row, but I only used one row which mated up perfectly with the single row triumph primary. This sprocket is now readily available from Paughco as a repop in several different tooth sizes. They sell it to mate a 45 motor to a big twin 4 speed gearbox in their custom 45 frame. Worked out well. I cobbled together tin inner and outer primary covers and ran the clutch dry with no problems.
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45Brit

Posts: 1414

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:13 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Regarding dry clutches, I have always used AMC clutches dry on track racing bikes with no problems at all. BSA M series clutches with the big central spring are designed to run dry in any case, or you could use Jawa clutch plates which fit straight into the Norton/AMC clutch basket.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1414

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:39 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

I was just looking at the Oaughco catalogue and can't see the WR Daytona sprocket - can anyone shed any light on this?
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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pelee islander

User avatar

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am

Location: Canada

Post Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:53 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Someone sent me this photo of their 45 with a Brit gear box. I forget who though. I am trying to source the rod end they used on the jockey shift cross shaft. The end that the heim joint attaches to. Anyone? Thanks.
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45Brit

Posts: 1414

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

I would imagine it is a one-off fabrication as part if the cross-shaft

My project has one with a rid running forward to the original brake pedal to give a right-side shift. Another option is to fit a longer gear pedal ( they come in all sorts of lengths on different models ) and passenger pegs, and change from there, they make quite good mid-pegs.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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pelee islander

User avatar

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am

Location: Canada

Post Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:39 pm

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

Thanks for the reply 45Brit.

I have a Servi car pedal I am using for the foot clutch and using the usual right side brake pedal for the rear disc. Hand shift is what I want.

I thought maybe it was a one off.
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45Brit

Posts: 1414

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:07 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

don't forget that the hand shift gate isn't compatible with the foot shift positive stop.

There was a long thread on here about this, a while ago. There was another one quite recently. I've ridden a shovelhead with a police shifter and ratchet top and I didn't find it a great problem, provided that you have a decent front brake.

If I was setting up a bike with hand lever operated positive stop transmission and foot clutch, I would have the gear change on the opposite side from the front brake. I would eliminate as many joints and shafts as possible and have an Indian-style "crotch shift" lever pivoted under the seat post/backbone joint with a rod to a short crank on the gear change spline. Some hand-shift British bikes were fitted with levers like this back in the day, usually for sprinting or as a "sporty roadster" mod

That said, I went through all this for my Ariel framed bike and decided not to do any of it, because it was a lot of work and defeated the object of having the positive stop gearbox. I didn't want to get involved in ANOTHER cross-shaft for the brake, either.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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pelee islander

User avatar

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am

Location: Canada

Post Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:12 am

Re: Wo's running a Brit Trans?

45Brit wrote:If I was setting up a bike with hand lever operated positive stop transmission and foot clutch, I would have the gear change on the opposite side from the front brake. I would eliminate as many joints and shafts as possible and have an Indian-style "crotch shift" lever pivoted under the seat post/backbone joint with a rod to a short crank on the gear change spline.


45Brit.........that is just what I am planning. Very similar setup to my old Scout. Also disc brakes front and rear for good stopping power.
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