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flywheel scrapers in k model

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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:13 pm

flywheel scrapers in k model

hi guys could someone tell me how many flywheel scrapers there are in a k model and also do they have baffle plates under the cylinders ,cheers jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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BREWSKI

Posts: 919

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:01 am

Location: RENO,NV. U.S.A.

Post Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

I've owned one of every year K model ,plus duplicates and have never seen any baffles in any of the cases. Flywheel scrapers are a different story.
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

thank you brewski , what kind of storys can you tell me about the scrapers ? number off ,position , etc regards jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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RUBONE

Posts: 380

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Post Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:27 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

what kind of storys can you tell me about the scrapers ? number off ,position , etc regards jib

Not sure what you mean Jib? All K scrapers, like on all H-Ds , are cast into the crankcase and are not a part in themselves, just a feature in the cases.
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Dusty-Dave

Posts: 876

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:00 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

If you think they may have been altered at some time to fit different flywheels or you are using different flywheels, slip the crank assembly one case half and check the clearance with a feeler gauge. I'm not aware of a clearance spec I just fit them as close as I can without dragging.
Dusty
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

guys ,am gonna use k barrels on my 45 ,long ongoing project thats almost reached the stage of closing the cases , except recently i became aware of the possible fact that :-

1, k model engines didnt have baffles.
2, they also only had one flywheel scraper .

so as im building k top end ,with functioning oilers i thought to replicate the crankcases ,ie no baffles and the same amount of scrapers.

cheers jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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WZ507

Posts: 84

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:01 pm

Post Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:54 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

There's one oil scraper on K's that scrapes both flyhweels. See images below - view from front and rear cylinders.

56 K oil scraper view from rear cylinder.JPG


56 K oil scraper view from front cylinder.JPG
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RUBONE

Posts: 380

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Post Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:44 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

Jib,
45 scrapers and K scrapers are the same. All H-Ds only have one, it is continuous across the crankcase. K models do not have baffles because ring technology made them redundant. The K top end is an easy deal, relocate one hole for the bases, swap the tappet guides for angled ones ( moldthread's are really nice, but so are Kurt's) , create a feed for the skirt oilers. No case mods are necessary to scrapers, even if you use aftermarket flywheels for more stroke. And 45s work just fine without baffles using modern oil rings.
Robbie
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

thanks guys , 45s have that little 'scraper' at the top of the cases as well ,do k's have that too.

robbie have welded up the cases were the stud needs moving (about 3 years ago :oops: ) and have drilled n taped the cases for feed and provided a feed drilling to the barrel bases . using either a 45 pump modded as per jims improvements or a modified return pump with spacer plate by george greer.
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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WZ507

Posts: 84

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:01 pm

Post Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

There is no other scraper or deviation on the inner cricumference of the case.

100_8565.JPG

100_8566.JPG
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WZ507

Posts: 84

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:01 pm

Post Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:03 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

Jib,

If you're going through the exercise of bringing oil pressure to the cylinder base, IMHO, I would continue the design process by abandoning the skirt oiler in the K cylinder in favor of a piston squirter who's oil stream was directed to the underside of the piston crown (rather than across the bore at the piston skirt). See Frankenstein's site for pictures of his version of a piston crown oiler.

http://dicky_linn.webs.com/flatheadpistonoiler.htm

http://dicklinn.webs.com/

Having the oil stream impinge directly on the under side of the piston crown would be significantly more effective at cooling the engine than simply having the oil stream squirt across the bottom of the bore at the piston skirt. After all, the crown of the piston is where combustion heat is absorbed and the area you are desperately trying to cool, not the piston skirt. If you hit the crown with the oil stream, this would likely improve the skirt cooling anyway, since the oil stream hitting the crown will be splashing or draining over the skirt as it returns to the bottom end.

If you undertake such a project I'd stick with a ~ 0.040" dia orifice in the terminal end of the squirter (same size as in the stock K barrel), since this will flow lots of oil if pressurized properly.
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

i had thought of that and agree Dr dicks ,squirters are superb , thoutgh i wonder if a 45 really needs them ,i dont think they would get hot enoutgh . unlike a bt flattie which purportedly does , regards jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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X-WLCH

Posts: 111

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:16 pm

Post Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

Hi Jib the second scraper is on the under side of the baffle. when the baffle was removed the scraper went with it.
I would remove the baffle.
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WZ507

Posts: 84

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:01 pm

Post Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

Jib,

Regarding operating temp of a 45, I think if you ride it conservatively you'd be fine with the stock set-up, but if you want to "ride it like you stole it" or do some higher speed cruising into a stiff head-wind, or on long grades, I could definitely envision temperature issues arising.

The most recent issue of the AMCA magazine (spring 2012 Vol. 52 No. 1) had a brief technical article on pistons in it, and specifically pistons in Henderson fours. There was mention made in the article of piston squirters, and the benefit they provide. There was also a picture of new Ross pistons, run in Henderson fours with and without piston squirters, and as always, the squirted piston (right) looked like it was right out of the box, and the non-squirted piston (left) looked like it had been on the BBQ with the burgers.

Henderson pistons and squirters.jpg
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

excellent comparison .....those pictures tell the story ok.

i do run it fast ,cruise at 70 ,top out at 85,this is with wl barrels n alloy heads ,mik carb , kh cams ,angle cam followers ,releived barrels etc .

just had rebore to +70 with k pistons ,need to fit them this weekend and new little end bushings and measure piston protrusion so can get the heads recessed for the right squish.

the engine am building ,looks like it might take more time now have seen the pictorial evidence ..... cheers jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:02 am

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

:wink: I have run Sporties for more years than I can remember as well as my KHK... No oil squiters in them bl**dy OHVs...

And I never seen their pistons look anything like the left hand side cooked one of the above photo... :mrgreen:

Patrick
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Beachdog

Posts: 765

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 12:01 am

Location: CA USA

Post Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:36 am

Re: flywheel scrapers in k model

I can't say from personal experience, as I've never had the good fortune to own a Henderson, but my Pop, a man who loved his Hendersons said they ran very hot. He felt this was because the inline four didn't cool the cylinders well in SoCal desert. He switched over to early ELs when they came out, but he always spoke lovingly about the smoothness and solidity of his much loved Hendersons. I can see where oil jets would cure this problem.

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