1949 WL 45

A friend of mine, bought a 1949WL 45. Originally came from Indonesia I'm told. I offered to help him with some problems with it, but I really wished I'd said nothing. The bike looks nice form a distance, but-------_!
It was grinding the gears when 1st was selected, and it couldn't be put back into nuetral when the motor was running. I said to him, I will have to go through the clutch, and find out why it is not disengaging properly.
I'm after some advise in regards to the clutch basket bearing.
It is fitted with 30 each, .250 x .615 rollers, in a bearing retainer.
The retainer, is badly mangled, and it is nearly impossible to assemble the rollers in the retainer, without having some of the rollers falling through the retainer, and holding everything together in order to assemble the clutch basket over onto the the clutch friction hub.
I ended up installing a complete spare WLA clutch from my spares.
My question is;
The standard WLA clutch has 60 each 7/32 balls in a retainer, same as a big twin clutch.
Also mentioned in the WLA maintenance manual is the change to rollers with 31 each, .125 x .615, fitted to 1940 WLA, and 40 each, .125 x .615 fitted to 1941 and later WLA's.
Bruce Palmer's book talks about the recommended change to rollers, but doesn't mention any dimensions.
All of my spare clutch baskets have the pressed in "bearing outer" to accept 7/32 balls or .125 rollers, but not .250 sized rollers. Is this size standard for 1949 WL 45cu inch flathead only???
Can someone clarify for me please.
If I could buy one of these .250 x .615 roller bearing retainers, then I can put his clutch back together, and I can get my spare back, and also save me a lot of grief. Is there a specific part number for this .250 x .615 rolller retainer???
Thanks Keith

Before you buy any parts, you may want to try check the rest of the bike as well.
The last '49 I saw had a negative value: none of the parts were useable, and every part
cost more to repair than to replace it.

Jan Willem

Thanks for the advise.
Yes this bike is a lemon, thats for sure.
There is horror stories all over it.
It has seen a lot of service with the gearbox loose, and the movement has worn into the frame somehow. The gearbox will not stay in alignment when tightened up. The motor sprocket, and the clutch sprocket do not line up.
The gearbox has to come out, to check if the elongated holes in the frame are worn, and also if the correct shouldered studs have been used to hold the gearbox.
I just want to locate a servicable bearing retainer for the (30) .250 x .615 rollers, used in the clutch, then I can install his clutch back in, then he can take the bike away, and not ever bring it back.

Thanks Keith

[Pa]

If I read your post correctly.....it sounds to me maybe the "Big Fix" roller bearing kit was installed into it ?

Thanks Pa; Does this "Big Fix" kit use 1/4 inch rollers (.250) ????
Keith

[Pa]

I haven't had one of those kits in my possession for a couple of years now but you might try asking this fellow out of Chicago. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Big-Fix- ... 0511224241

[Pa]

OEM ball bearings are .2186" diameter. I imagine the rollers for the big fix kit are roughly the same. That bike must have a totally different clutch hub or clutch basket on it, unless someone bored the shell bearing area larger and or turned the hub bearing surface down. Doing so would remove the tempered surface of either or both.

Thanks Pa for taking the time to help me. I really appreciate it very much.
You are correct in your last reply.The clutch shell looks to be a standard HD part, but the shell bearing area has been turned down. On my other spares, all of the shells have what appear to be a pressed in ring (bearing surface) and they all measure approx .167 thick, and the bearing ring on this 1949 WL is .138 thick. (very hard to get a vernier in for an acurate measurement) , so that explains why it takes rollers with .250 diameter.
All the hub bearing surfaces are the same diameter.
I have a set of new rollers, that I was going to use in my 45, that came in the kit, when I converted to belt drive. These are about an inch long and are .2175 diameter, and they are crowded, so there is about 60 of them. I can't remember if the conversion was a "Big Fix" kit, or not.
Just a side issue. I didn't use these long rollers, because I couldn't get my clutch to stop dragging, so I fitted the standard (60) 7/32" balls as used on the WLA's. Seemingly the rollers don't allow the friction surfaces between the shell and the hub to separate properly when disengaged, and I had hard shifting problems as a result. With the standard balls, problem solved. Clutch disengages cleanly.
I'm going to try and file the slots in this mangled bearing retainer, so that when I have the retainer fitted over the hub, I can fit each roller in from the outside, held in place with a wide elastic band, and then fit the shell over the bearing and hub, and then pull out the elastic band. (I hope) Then I'll put everything back together again. The owner can then try to locate someone, who is prepaired to strip the bike down, in order to sort the misalignment problem with the gearbox, and fix all the other horrors that WILL be reveiled.
I'll post back how I get on.
Cheers Keith
ps Pa How do I send you a picture of my flattie????

[Pa]

Keith...I put the following up a few years ago under another topic. Specs are all from nos parts.



There was a discussion on the roller use a while back as well. Best answer as to why the rollers caused poor clutch disc disengagement was the inability to rock on the hub and in the basket.

The clutch basket race is not a pressed in component on a stock basket assembly. The race is actually one single piece and is part of the primary drive chain sprocket. This one piece is riveted to the actual clutch disc basket. The race/sprocket is a replacable component but I cannot for the life of me remember the replacement part number.

I'm using the Big Fix Kit and I'm glad I did. It's properly named for sure.

[Pa]

I'm using the Big Fix Kit and I'm glad I did. It's properly named for sure.

What works for one bike seems not to work on all bikes. It must be the many variables in bearing race and roller diameters which determines whether the fix is right for the components used.

[Pa]

I sent you a PM Keith.

Pa ; Sorry I don't understand PM?? I didn't see anything on my email. I wanted to send you some pictures of my projects, in appreciation of your help.
I managed to assemble the original clutch with its mangled bearing retainer , and .250 rollers. The operation of it, is much better than before, but with the mis-alignment problems in the gearbox, I don't expect the the chain and clutch sprocket to last to long.
At least it is not my good spare WLA clutch that is going to be ruined as the miles progress.
I have researched forums, and found folk, who have had positive results with regards rollers used in Flathead clutch applications, but I still don't get it!!
Rollers by virtue of there design, will gradually work there way over, when the spring pressure of the clutch is released to allow separation of the clutch shell and the clutch hub friction surfaces, but this takes time, between gear changes.
With ball bearings, it happens a lot quicker, because balls allow 360 degrees of movement, therefore no hard shifting.
When I change from 2nd into top, for example, I give a long pause to allow the revs to drop, and it shifts clean, if done between 28 and 30 MPH, for my gearing. Doen't happen for me with rollers. Also when the clutch is disengaged when idling, the clutch hub actually comes to a dead stop, with just a little bit of shunting. Not so with rollers. No way!!
I am yet to find out, how much groove wear developes with the use of the standard WLA 7/32 balls.
If idling, I always have the clutch engaged, in neutral, so the bearing doesn't have to work.
Thanks Keith
ps. I can now see the clutch shell bearing surface and sprocket is a replacable item.

[Pa]

I am glad i was able to be of some assistance to you. Helping each other out is what this forum is for. Thank you's are not neccessary.

PM is a term for private message. To get to private messaging, just click on my name [ or any other member of your choice ] to send a private message. The new window that comes up will have provisions for sending a message. At the top of the page after you login to the forum, there is a link in called new messages. If you click on that link, it will take you to your private messages inbox where I sent my message to you.

Dear Pa: I can't say thank-you, so I'll just say "good stuff" or "excellent" or "outstanding"
Keith