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K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

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MOLDTHREAD

Posts: 115

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am

Location: BRANFORD, CT

Post Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:18 am

K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Hi Guys,

In the last month I have received a bunch of phone calls about the parts I make and how they are used to put K or KH top ends on WL cases.
I thought that for each call I received there are many others out there who were wondering about what is involved.
So , here it is.
I know that there are many ways to do this in addition to what I have listed and think it might be helpful for others to let us know what they have done.
Also, many thanks to those that have previously posted on this subject or had discussions with me, including Dr. Dick, Panic, Patrick, Celtic Dodge and others too numerous to list.

HOW TO PUT K & KH MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

WHAT YOU ARE CHANGING

The biggest problem is that the cylinder stud by the exhaust valve is in the wrong location! This is the only machining operation involved other than for replacing cam lobes. Other than this it can be an entirely "bolt on" situation
Use a 3/8-16 threaded aluminum rod or bolt to plug the existing hole, use red locktite and tighten. Cut off and file or machine flush. Drill and re-tap using a K model base gasket for location.

The K cylinders have the valves at an angle tipped toward the cylinder bore. The angles on the intakes and exhaust are different and are also slightly different than what is used on the WR. The WL valves are in a plane that is parallel to the bore.

This was accomplished by grinding the cams at an angle and having the tappet guides at the same angle.

The best solution is the use WR cam angles with WR tappet guides While some builders have run K/KR cams with WR guides, the angle difference places a strain on the rollers and the may fail prematurely.

The positioning of the tappet adjusters to the valve centerlines is negligible on the intakes, while the exhaust are off about .045”. In actual usage this does not appear to cause any problems other than accelerated wear on the top of the adjusters.

The angles are as follows.
Intake exhaust
WL 0º 0º
WR 1.033º 3.533º
K models 1.0º 3.0º

WL cams are for bushings while WR cams have ball bearings, and will not fit in WL cases without machining them. Engineering tests have proven that a well lubricated bushing has less friction than ball bearings. Also the WR had a problem with breaking the turned down shaft on the #4 cam shaft.

The WR cam profiles are for flat tappets and will not work with roller tappets!
Also the WR tappet guides are made for the flat tappets which are wider than the roller tappets, the standard WR guides must be welded and remachined.

I recommend that for street use the hottest cam to use is the KHK profile. It is actually a hotter profile than was available in the flat tappet WR.

WR valve spring covers must also be used as the WR style tappet guides are not threaded. These use a o’ring seal and retaining screw on the guide and a rubber band seal on the slip joint.


WHAT PARTS DO I NEED?

Cam profiles with the correct WR angles for roller tappets *

WR angled tappet guides for roller tappets *

WL or K model roller tappets with adjusters (standard re-pop items)
KH cylinders require longer adjusters *

WR valve spring covers, longer covers for use with KH cylinders are also available *

Stronger valve springs for more aggressive KR profile cams *

Light weight valve spring retainers * (these use the stock keepers)

Stainless steel KR valves *, These have 45º angles, can be reground to 30º for racing applications, valve guides need to be honed

*these parts manufactured by Enfield Racing

Good luck and have fun,

Bruce
http://www.enfieldracing.com
Bruce Argetsinger
AHRMA Dirt Track # 67J
www.enfieldracing.com
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George Greer

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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Markt Einersheim, Germany

Post Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:32 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Bruce,

I wish that when I began my WL/KH project I had such a list as you just posted, sure would have saved me some time.

But, if I had such a list, I would have not learnt anying....I say that because not having a list, made me research and read.

I went to your web site, and could not find the longer tappet adjusters.

I know that there is a pricing policy here, and I don't want to get Pa to put on the editors cap. He's got enough hats to wear :D

PM or email me OK?

Thanks..George
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celticdodge

Posts: 139

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:29 am

Location: USA

Post Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:00 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

For those of you that may be wondering if the alignment of the valve stem and adjuster is a problem it's insignificant and really nothing to worry about.You will see in the attached picture of the front exhaust that alignment is dead on.Now I know the real issuse is the exhaust and the picture provided is the intake but really there is not much difference.Don't let this hold you guys back from putting the K Model top end on your 45's.Bigger ports,better head design,put in the KHK cams and I'll bet you will leave the WR's behind.Remember you can do this without having to pay for outrageously overpriced tall KHK cylinders and use the shorter and far cheaper K Model cylinders.Also you can now get the stroked flywheels that allow the use of the Sportster rods and don't have to deal with finding the hard to get Wr parts.Hope this helps. :D :D





http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k309/ ... G_6093.jpg
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2602

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Image
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MOLDTHREAD

Posts: 115

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am

Location: BRANFORD, CT

Post Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:23 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

George,

Not on the web site yet, need to get them heat treated.
Send me an email to info@enfieldracing.com

Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce Argetsinger
AHRMA Dirt Track # 67J
www.enfieldracing.com
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woody

Posts: 456

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Wa, USA

Post Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:23 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Chris,
Are those custom bronze lifter blocks? I have been thinking of doing that for my U. Any info or tips would be appreciated.
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Pa

Site Admin

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Location: Ohio USA

Post Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:07 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

woody....Chris put the pic up for celticdodge. Pa
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jib

Posts: 570

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Location: devon,england

Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:08 am

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

woody those are the ones that moldthread makes i think you will find. go to his website and see them there
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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37ULH

Posts: 681

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:01 am

Location: somerset, oh usa

Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Reinforcing what CD stated, perhaps much to the dismay of those that have planned going on with (and purchased) KH cylinders.
The first time we pulled the trigger on mine (45") on the fresh build (and we were conservative) mine went almost 96 in a standing mile and I know it had more.
Would clarify that if using this setup you would not want "stroker flywheels" but stock stroke, available either from our host and through Panic (T&O), both that utilize XL rods, pin etc.
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Chris Haynes

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Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:13 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

37ULH wrote:available either from our host and through Panic (T&O), both that utilize XL rods, pin etc.



Are you saying that Panic is Truett & Osborn?
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37ULH

Posts: 681

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Location: somerset, oh usa

Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:51 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Post was intended for those who may build something and not know the resources available.
I have not dealt with T&O directly but possibly you can. S&S requires going through a dealer.
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George Greer

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Location: Markt Einersheim, Germany

Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:32 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Are you saying that Panic is Truett & Osborn?

Nope, he isn't.

Sells T&O parts at the Victory site that's it.

I have my T&O stroker flywheels purchased directly from them, and I am using the ones that use WL rods.

37ULH Can you post any pics of your build? Or care to share any build tips?

Bruce, I will contact you off line.

Celticdodge, Do you have a straight on shot like the above photo showing contact of both intake and exaust valves?

George
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Frankenstein

User avatar

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Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Ah, Bruce, you make it way too easy! Nice work.
I just got a set of KHK profile cams from Bruce, Look great, by the way. I cut the old lobes off a set of wl cams.
Anyway, the new lobes are a very light press on the old shafts, can be moved as needed to align, then you spot weld them as in the directions that come with the cams.
I've got the lobes on but haven't timed them in as yet, still bringing in firewood :lol:
By the way, I'm replacing the lobes in Frankie because the case hardening was giving way on the intake lobes. I guess the misalignment after all these years took it's toll. I used WL tappet blocks on the intake, not WR. The intake lobes I got from Bruce are flat so as to work perfectly with the WL blocks.
DD
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37ULH

Posts: 681

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:01 am

Location: somerset, oh usa

Post Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:09 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

GG It all depends on what you're doing with it. What i did with mine isn't applicable unless we are using all the same stuff for the same application which we are not......and probably not then.
All the parts I used are readily available excepting cam axles (hint, hint) (I used oem KHK cams).
If you are questioning the resources and forethought that Bruce utilized for his quality products, don't!
He's tested his methods thoroughly by himself and with his generous sharing of putting others on 3 vintage enfields on America's dirttracks for years.
As the Dr. said, it's all too easy with Bruce's help, if you know what to do with the parts.
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celticdodge

Posts: 139

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:29 am

Location: USA

Post Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:31 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Goerge,here is another picture of the front tappet showing the alignment between the tappet adjuster and the valve stem,the alignment is within thousandths and is about as good as you ever expect. :D :D



http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k309/ ... CF0443.jpg
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STROKER

Posts: 104

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:35 pm

Location: VOLUNTEER STATE

Post Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Dick, could you please explain the procedure of how to align the cam lobes with the gears/timing marks on thegears? I've read about people doing this on XR 750's but have never seen an explanation of the procedure involved. I'm sure there would be other people interested as well. TIA STROKER
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MOLDTHREAD

Posts: 115

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am

Location: BRANFORD, CT

Post Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Here is a link to the instructions for adjusting cam timing using weld on, or press on cam lobes on my website.
This method, I think was originated by Jerry Branch on the KR's. You could not move a set of timed cams from one engine to another and expect the timing to be correct. This process is still used today on the XR750's.
It is due to the variation on the positioning of the lifters to the cams. A .005" variation amounts to a 5º change in cam timing.
Not of much of a problem on a street bike, but on a racer it's winning or losing.
Also not much of a problem on a side valve, but on a racing over head valve with tight valve to piston clearance it can get very expensive.

http://enfieldracing.com/doc/ADJUSTING_CAMS.doc

Enjoy,
Bruce
http://www.enfieldracing.com
Bruce Argetsinger
AHRMA Dirt Track # 67J
www.enfieldracing.com
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45Brit

Posts: 1360

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:09 am

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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George Greer

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Location: Markt Einersheim, Germany

Post Sun May 01, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

MOLDTHREAD wrote:George,

Not on the web site yet, need to get them heat treated.
Send me an email to info@enfieldracing.com

Thanks,
Bruce


Bruce, you got mail.

George
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George Greer

User avatar

Posts: 947

Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Markt Einersheim, Germany

Post Mon May 30, 2011 4:45 am

Re: K MODEL CYLINDERS ON WL CASES

Plug for Bruce...

I got a set of his extended tappet screws.....

Excellent quality and they fit perfect.

Thanks Bruce.

George
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