FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

<<

Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4732

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:28 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

What part of ENOUGH is not understood ?
<<

old man

Posts: 10

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:22 pm

Location: wisconsin

Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:30 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

After coating pistons,heads.etc. did you run carb leaner or richer? Timing advanced or retarded from book ? Also,any noticeable change in head/cyl. temp?
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

old man
Thanks for getting back to the "metal"

I have about 1200 miles since building it. I have babied it. Very little idling in traffic. 65 MPH is as fast as she has gotten to. Timing is set to T&O flywheel timing marks. She is running a mikuni 34MM carb. I recently took the #20 pilot jet out and replaced it with a # 35. I have not measured the head/cylinder temp. The paint has not burned off around the ex. ports. Ex. pipes still look like chrome. It would be fairly simple to measure the temp. readings with a pyrometer. Does anyone know what their's is running? I will report back when I get readings.
F
<<

Neil74

Posts: 251

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 9:38 pm

Location: Hudson, Florida

Post Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Very nice build F, I was wondering how the coated pistons work. Congratulations on your build when you an Dr. Dick get the bugs out it may be nice to pickup a Flaty to play with.
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:23 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Neil74
The pistons were coated on the top only. The coating was almost white. It was done by

http://www.millerpowdercoating.com

They did the rest of the coatings inside the engine and on the frame.

F
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:36 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

old man
Here are some temp readings. They were taken with a digital pyrometer. They were taken after about 15 miles of country roads at 50 - 60 MPH on a 95+ degree Georgia day. Both front and rear cylinders were almost exactly the same. I still don't know what if anything they mean but it only took a few minutes to read. It would be interesting to know what other engines read such as ones with cast iron heads, stroker engines, engines with piston squirters and so forth. I suspect they are very similar.
F

Ex. port portion of cylinder= 420
Ex. pipe about 2" from cylinder= 130
Spark plug base= 300
Heads 280-320
Oil pump= 120
Oil tank= 105
Gear-case cover= 130
Cylinders at bottom= 300
Cylinders at top= 350
<<

Neil74

Posts: 251

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 9:38 pm

Location: Hudson, Florida

Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

F, what weight and kind of oil were you running and do you run an oil cooler? Anyone familiar with the similarities between the 74 an 80 Harley Flatheads and the Indian 74 and 80's. In a good state of tune would the findings relate?
<<

George Greer

User avatar

Posts: 961

Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Markt Einersheim, Germany

Post Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:28 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

<<

Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1557

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:13 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

I don't happen to have a 90 degree day handy to take some readings, but if I remember correctly, I've seen 280-300 head temps, oil temps around 180 deg. Chrome tank, so I pop the cap and shoot the oil directly with the infrared temp gun. The high oil temps are good, I think, as the whole idea of the squirters is to pull heat from the piston. I'm curious about the piston coating. I went to their web site, looks like they coat everything except the kitchen sink, but including the lawn furniture! Seriously, I'm presuming the coating applied to piston tops is a specialized material, and only the application process is common. Keeping the pistons from soaking up heat in the first place seems like a good idea.
One more trick I performed on my machines is to put the sloped top to the pistons as described in Victory library literature. I did this as I'm thinking it minimizes the exposure of the edge of the piston nearest the intake port. That area of the combustion chamber seems to be the hottest, judging from the whitish deposits on piston and cylinder. So, by sloping the piston top so that the flame front doesn't strike the side of the piston there, hopefully I've reduced the heat the piston absorbs at that point. I remove enough metal so that even with the cylinders lightly relieved, none of the piston edge is exposed at TDC.
Who knows what really works except by trial and error. It's just wait and see at this point. But, although I don't push the engine hard all the time, I don't worry about running high steady speed, even on hot days. The whole idea is to make the motor to stand up to modern riding conditions, so my attitude is, let's find out.
DD
<<

old man

Posts: 10

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:22 pm

Location: wisconsin

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:41 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

fhs Thanks for the temps. Seem to be close to my readings on a 85+,high humidity day. I run a sidecar mostly in town so I don't get as much air flow but I'm not pulling as many rpm's as you. MMB
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:42 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

George
This is very interesting. The figures are on a 45 instead of a big twin but I would think the heat would be about the same. My readings are mostly under what is shown in the figure but I had not ran it hard or for very long. I have always heard on here that the main problem with the U engine is heat between the cylinder wall and ex. port. That is the reason I had the coating applied in the ex. port. I hope someone here can measure a similar engine without the coating for comparison sake. I would also think that one with piston squirters would read a much higher oil temperature and possible lower head and cylinder temperature.
F
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:36 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

DD
Do you have a place to find the “Victory library literature”?

I took my oil temp reading directly off the oil tank so it may not be accurate.

The powder-coater does a lot of internal engine work for race cars and bikes. We debated whether or not to do the skirts of the pistons with Teflon. There are 2 different coatings they used. The piston was almost white and chalky looking. The coating in the pipes and ex. Port is much darker and thicker. The pipes still look new.

I will continue to report back on the engine.

F
<<

Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1557

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:53 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

F, I actually bought several of the pamphlets years ago when I was building up Frankie. They're all available at the website.
DD
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:33 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

All
I have put about 300 miles on the 42 since replacing the oil pump. Several miles were 55-65 mph for a sustained time. I can see no signs that the return pump can't keep up with the supply. After riding several miles the pressure seems stuck on 20 PSI. This is idle and at speed. It has sat several days with no signs of wet sumping either. At this point I would recommend the pump to anyone who wants to upgrade their system with no extra machine work.

I have tried out the new attachment feature. I have not tried it since it was upgraded. I must say it is much easier to use.
F
flathead5.jpg
<<

Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1557

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Sounds good so far, thanks for the update. Looks like a clean installation. I had some trouble viewing online, so I downloaded the image to my hard drive and l
looked at it in adobe.
DD
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:03 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Using photobucket works a little better. I have never seen an oil pump with those markings before.
Image
<<

helsingborg

Posts: 82

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:08 pm

Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:06 am

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Hey fhsmith!
Are you using modern three piece oil rings?
I read somewhere in this board you should go with mutiple piece oil rings when using their pump, but i'm not positive.
Karl.
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:30 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

Chris Haynes
The pump came with instructions from these people.

http://www.calas-hp.se/

Frankenstein
Thanks for downloading the picture. Sooner or later I will get the hang of posting pics.



helsingborg
I heard the same thing about the 3 piece rings. I already had the engine together with the old 1 piece ones.
So far I have not ridden behind it to see the smoke but I can't see any from the riders position.
The oil level has not changed enough to tell in about 300 miles.

I will report more after the long HOT Georgia summer.

S&S
If you are reading, I still wish the pump had come from you.
Regards
F
<<

fhsmith1

Posts: 206

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

All
I have had some correspondents with vt-cycle since installing the oil pump.
He is following the thread on here. He e-mailed me some information and temperature readings on his bike.
He took the readings in Finland on a 77 degree day.
My readings were here in Georgia on a 97 degree day so add about 20 degrees to his readings.
It appears that all his oiling system readings are higher and all his head and cylinder temperatures are lower.
To me this proves that the piston squirter and other modifications do work.


> here is some temp readings after about 20 mile country roads, 60-70 MPH
> it was 77F day.
> I turn engine off, and take these readings after 2 minutes.
> didnt find my pyrometer sooner!
>
> oil tank: 167F
> oil pump: 145F
> cam cover: 140F
> heads: 270- 290F
> cyl base: 170- 180F
> cyl top: 260- 270F
>
> bike is my -38U chopper, 4 1/2 mild stroker, relieved, about 6,5:1 comp,
> my aluheads with pop-up pistons.
> 4-bolt linkert, bigger manifold and intake nipples.
> New oil feed pump, full-time oil to 2-hole crankpin, front skirt oiler.
> big oil filter in return line.
> all my oiling modifications aim to get as much oil as possible to
> crankcase and below pistons.
> breather tower have been modified also to get all that oil and heat out
> fast too.
<<

jib

Posts: 573

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: http://www.vt-cycle.fi

hi fhsmith ,did the vt guys say were they had taken thier oil supply to the piston oilers from please? regards jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
PreviousNext

Return to Big Twin Flatties

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2012 phpBB Group.