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$2500 1940 junior scout

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greg1

Posts: 336

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:01 am

Location: Kirksville Missouri United States

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:00 am

$2500 1940 junior scout

A friends first Indian he bought a couple years ago.
notice it's a 1940 skirted fender rigid.That's my son Christian beside it.He took the engine down to rebuild it,It is complete.He's owned an independent Harley Davidson shop for 25 years so he's capable of the rebuild........




Image

Image
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:25 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

interesting project
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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tprjj49707

Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am

Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:48 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

It looks like a 741 rear frame & front...love to have it though...especially at that price...
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greg1

Posts: 336

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:01 am

Location: Kirksville Missouri United States

Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

tprjj49707 please tell me more,my friends never owned an Indian.I owned a Chief briefly about 25 years ago so I don't know much about Indians.So is any part of it a junior scout?What is the engine I'm almost sure Larry said it was 30.5 cubic inches.Can you give me a run down on the different parts origination.The elderly gentleman that passed after selling it to Larry may have been misinformed on what he owned.Also due to his advanced age he might have just been unable to remember for sure.Any way you look at it he give my friend a pretty good deal for the measly dollar amount and a promise to never sell it.I'm out of my element if it isn't hardly davidson so all help appreciated.........
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tprjj49707

Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:35 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

I am by no means an Indian expert, but the front frame is 741, noted by straight (vertical) seat tube, and oval dash...rear frame does not have vertical suports in front of rear axle leading me to believe it was also 741, but upon further review, it may be a later vertical twin scout/Brit rear end adapted...the tranny jumps out at me as unusual, but since my wreck/project doesn't have a tranny I couldn't say for sure...Motor mounts, front pair mounted on rear...

The rear fender is strange to me... but I can't see enough of the front one to say any more. 30.50 is rght for the 741, I don't know enough about junior scouts to comment on similarities to 741.

There are many much wiser, experienced (better looking) Indian enthusiasts on this site that will be able to offer much more meaningful information than my Mr. Obvious observations. It is still a great find.


Jerry
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:52 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

more obvious stuff... from the general condition of the metal, I'd say the mudguards are repop. I'd also greatly doubt that Indian ever made alloy engine plates, as these appear to be.

go here http://tinyurl.com/2dp9ggb for a good view of the various frames.I stand to be corrected by an Indian expert, but it seems as though 101 Scouts, Sport Scouts and 741s all have the bolt-up engine and gearbox combination as per Chiefs. This means the frame has a vertical seat post behind the gearbox. The Junior Scout has a separate gearbox with a vertical seat post between the engine and gearbox, and the Prince has a sloping seat post between the engine and gearbox.

rear chain stays and gearbox mounting on the Junior Scout and Prince are quite different, like a 1920s Enfield with a Sturmey Archer gearbox.

I believe there was also a short-lived model called the Motoplane using the same cycle parts and a 37" or maybe 45" engine using Scout parts, but I'm not certain about this.. oh ok, here's one... http://tinyurl.com/38mo8z9


that said, for the money it's a great find. Get it running, ride it around in the sunshine and if anyone wants to pick holes, let 'em build their OWN Indian....
Last edited by 45Brit on Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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greg1

Posts: 336

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:01 am

Location: Kirksville Missouri United States

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

45 Brit the engine plates deceive you,they are painted silver metal no alloy at all.I don't know real from aftermarket Indian sheetmetal but the bike was stored in the elderly mans house since sometime in the 60's as he quit riding but refused to part with it.
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:30 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

ok fair enough, I was guessing from the appearance of the engine plates.

as for those guards, I would be pretty sceptical they have been in store for nearly 50 years. I'd be looking for corrosion around the bolts, irregular fading, paint bubbles, that kind of thing. Taken together with the obvious primer and mismatched paint on the tank, I'd say you have bought someone's abandoned project.

it's still a super little thing though, and well worth restoring. You do at least HAVE a tank and mudguards, which seem to fit, and you won't get far without them... If you have the substantial cycle parts and the mechanicals from the same or at least, a sufficiently similar model, you are pretty much home free.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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tprjj49707

Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:41 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

Motoplane-that may explain the no handwheels look on the fork links...it is consistent with those pics posted by 45Brit.
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

by "handwheels" I take it you mean the friction dampers. They were sometimes fitted as standard, sometimes as an extra, and often simply were lost over the years. Most of the forks in those pics, of all models, don't have them, Looking at those pics I'd guess your front forks are from a 741.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:21 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

Your right on the money 45brit! Theres even an Indian Motoplane club! '33 only. Just google. Ya learn sumpin' everyday!
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:05 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

information from a VMCC member who knows the model, suggests that the reason the Motoplane was a one-year-only model is that the transmission and frame were not sufficiently strong for the 45" engine.

Looking at the configuration of the under-hung gearbox, I don't see why it wouldn't work - 1920s Enfields and Sunbeams with Sturmey Archer gearboxes are configured in a similar fashion - so maybe it is the gearbox and clutch assembly?

anyway, there it is, for what it is worth, it suggests you would better keeping the Junior Scout engine at its stock 500cc.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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greg1

Posts: 336

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:01 am

Location: Kirksville Missouri United States

Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:18 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

We had a guy that breathed Triumph his whole life tell us it was the rarest Indian he'd personally seen due to the combination of its year,rigid frame,and skirted fenders.I'm nearing 50 so I can smell bullshit but if he was wrong he even believed his own story............
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tprjj49707

Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am

Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:05 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

So is that a motoplane rear/gearbox on a 741 front frame?

Sprocket on left side.

I am thinking no on 741 fork because ride dampener anchors aren't visible, although they could have been removed.
Also the horn appears to be centered, not located on right.

Steering dampener pins are visible on lower tree & front frame.

Good analogy about Triumph guy...maybe it was the rarest he had seen...part of the magic/illusion IS believing your own bullshit;)

To his point, rigid/skirted is a one year only; 1940.
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:49 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

I wouldn't be dogmatic about the 741 fork, it's just that the shape of the blades doesn't match those pictures.

From what I have been told, the Prince and Junior Scout were a short -lived attempt to copy the British bikes of the day. Prince was a 350cc single in various ohv and sv configurations, Junior Scout was a 500cc sv twin using the same gearbox and clutch plus similar cycle parts. Primary drive was by chain rather than gears.

the Motoplane was an attempt to build a bargain-basement sporting 45" solo from the same base machine, which was not a success. Presumably if it had succeeded, it would have superseded the Scout?
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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indianut

Posts: 604

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:01 am

Location: Largo, Fl

Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:46 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

That is a Very rare, one year only Full Skirted Fender Indian Junior Scout!
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Neil74

Posts: 251

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 9:38 pm

Location: Hudson, Florida

Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:47 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

Wasn't Steve McQueen photographed on a 40 Skirted fender Indian he rode all the time?
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Dusty-Dave

Posts: 884

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:45 pm

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

What in the world made you all see any 741 in that 40 junior? Look where the shifter is, cant be a 741 front section! Look at the rear frame and transmission, only Juniors (later called thirty fifty, not sure about 40)had a transmission hanging on the frame like a Hardly! And Look at the fenders and forks and Clincher rims and on and on! I don't see anything that isn't Jr Scout 1940.
Dusty
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tprjj49707

Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am

Post Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:43 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

45brit- I have a brand new shop rag here, I suggest we tear it down the middle & wipe the egg off our faces...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:18 am

Re: $2500 1940 junior scout

what for? My posts are carefully phrased to add up to 'it could be just about anything, but probably isn't'... I have no problems :D

since you ( presumably ) have a 500cc engine, I would stick to my earlier suggestion, that it is a Junior Scout frame, transmission and engine ( it can hardly be anything else, since all the other models have bolted-up, gear-primary unit with the seat post behind the gearbox )

forks, I don't really know. Don't appear to be correct for Junior Scout. Wheels, really can't offer an opinion. Tanks and mudguards appear to me to be much later repop items.

my original suggestion stands. Build it as it is and ride it. You will have a very distinctive bike, pleasant to ride in a period sort of way, and if people want to niggle, tell 'em to build their OWN Indian just how they reckon it should be.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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