Board index Flathead Power-Technical Questions, Answers, and Suggestions Pans Running problems

Running problems

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

Post Wed May 26, 2010 2:08 pm

Posts: 103
Location: Switzerland

Hi there,
I have a Pan with a Linkert M-74B. The engine idles well when the low speed needle is at only 1/2 turn from fully in. This seems very lean but the engine idles perfectly. When I open the throttle the engine starts missing, shoots, backfires and finally dies. No acceleration is possible. When I turn the low speed needle out to about 2 to 3 turns, accelaration is possible (when riding it still misses when I try to accelarate quickly) but at idle it's too rich, smokes a lot and finally dies.

What was already done: carburator cleaned, Float level checked and set to 1/4 (black foam float), new float valve and seat (with the rubber tip), main nozzle changed to the proper (5 air bleed hole) one, all new gaskets at the manifold, ignition checked, new points and condesor, timing adjusted, new spark plugs, different coil tested, valve play adjusted.

The fixed jet in the carburator has the number 108. Is that the propper one?

What else can there be??

Thanks for any advise!
Mac

Post Thu May 27, 2010 9:14 pm

Posts: 3118
Location: Central Illinois, USA
HDMac!

The first variable to eliminate is the possibility of a vacuum leak.

Please pressuretest your manifold assembly as discussed at http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html
Note that the pan cover screw over each intake port is a possible site for a leak as well, since some have perforated into the port.

(Barnyard tests of spraying stuff while the motor is running only hints at huge leaks, and overlooks tiny ones.)

Your rubber-tipped needle is a liability in modern fuels, but probably isn't the problem, yet.
VITON.jpg
Before-and-after swelling of "viton" needle
VITON.jpg (21 KiB) Viewed 10167 times


I think your jet is really a #18, and proper, if it hasn't been boogered.

Good luck!

...Cotten
Last edited by Cotten on Fri May 28, 2010 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Fri May 28, 2010 3:00 am

Posts: 103
Location: Switzerland

We will do the pressuretest on the weekend. Have to modify the plate to fit the 4 bolt manifold first.
Your rubber-tipped needle is a liability in modern fuels, but probably isn't the problem, yet.

Do you normally use the all brass needles instead of the rubber tip ones?

Post Fri May 28, 2010 6:13 am

Posts: 3118
Location: Central Illinois, USA
HDMac!

I endorse valves that are as similar to original design as possible, as the brass alloy used is subject to rapid corrosion.
VITON2.jpg
VITON2.jpg (12.51 KiB) Viewed 10111 times

At this time, the only ones with anything close to a monel metal needle are from Larry Elias of the Netherlands, identified by a octagonal black-oxide steel needle. They, too, are subject to corrosion, but service far better than oriental productions.

Euro fuels are not yet as horribly digestive as USA fuels , so it is unlikely that your soft-tipped needle has swollen enough to change your float level as much as the one shown, but it should be inspected for loosened adhesive to the tip, or even a tip that was ground badly out-of-round.

Once again, I urge you to pressuretest your manifold assembly, before addressing the carburetor itself.

....Cotten

Post Fri May 28, 2010 6:35 am
panic

..
Last edited by panic on Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Fri May 28, 2010 12:58 pm

Posts: 103
Location: Switzerland

Is this it?

Yes thats the nozzle I have in there now. Before there was one with only 4 holes and no square part near the top. But no change in the running pattern :(

When you say "ignition checked", what advance?

Fully advanced to the line on th flywheel (beginning of the inspection hole)

Post Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:45 am

Posts: 103
Location: Switzerland

Thanks for all the tips and tricks. Here is the solution to the problem:

First we did the proper pressure test and found a manifold leak. I thought that this is the problem, fixed it until under pressure no leak could be detected anymore. After all the work, guess what - same thing. The engine did not run any better :(

I tried some other stuff with the carb. no change :x

After all that I decided to try another M74 that I got from a friend and - the engine runns perfect!! :lol: Somehow ths Linkert I used has a problem. Also with this one the idle needle is right where it should be - about 2 turns out (not like with the first one where the engine only idls well when the idle adjusting needle is at only half a turn out)

Anybody and idea what the problem of the carb is?
Mac

Post Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:17 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 5772
Location: Ohio USA

Look for a crack in the carb body or a badly warped mounting flange.

Post Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:38 pm

Posts: 251
Location: Hudson, Florida
Make sure the low speed needle spring washer isn't on backwards, it makes it hard to idle.

Post Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:16 am

Posts: 307
Location: Ohio
Keep using your buddys carb and send the mis-fit to Cotten for a going over. :wink:

Post Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:00 pm

Posts: 159
When you think it's the carb, it will be electrical! Condensors can give that symptom as well. Ask me how i know!

Post Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:38 pm

Posts: 103
Location: Switzerland

we checked all electrical before changing the carb. There where problems but non of them solved the running problem of the engine. we changed the condenser too. As said at the end changing the carb solved the problem.

Post Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:42 am

Posts: 33
Take a look at the shaft that the butterfly is attached to. When the holes in the carb that this shaft goes through, get wallowed out, it will cause a big vacumn leak that will cause the same symptoms you reported. Those don't show up in the pressure test either. You an repair the carb body by reaming the holes larger and putting flanged bushing in there for the shaft to ride in. Also, check your total advance timing with a timing light.

Post Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:36 am

Posts: 3118
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Boots99 wrote:
Take a look at the shaft that the butterfly is attached to. When the holes in the carb that this shaft goes through, get wallowed out, it will cause a big vacumn leak that will cause the same symptoms you reported. Those don't show up in the pressure test either. You an repair the carb body by reaming the holes larger and putting flanged bushing in there for the shaft to ride in. Also, check your total advance timing with a timing light.


Boots99!

Why must you go over-size and use a flanged bushing?

....Cotten


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