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Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

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Kdurgin

Posts: 8

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:07 pm

Post Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:59 am

Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question? If a Knuckle cylinder head has been mounted on a Pan cylinder, would the holes in the head need to be modified to fit the pan cylinder bolt hole pattern? Can the head later be remounted on a Knuckle cylinder without a problem? Thanks, Kevin.
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Jerry Wieland

Posts: 606

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA

Post Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:04 am

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Only one bolt hole needed to be moved and usually it can be put back but sometimes it takes a bit of work because the holes overlapp.

Jerry
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panic

Post Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:55 am

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Be careful when purchasing or assembling a modified head.
On occasion, the "builder" saves the price of the correct 7/16-16 NS knucklehead tap by using a common 7-16-20 NF tap and a panhead bolt.
If you put the bolts in the wrong holes, guess what happens...
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Boots99

Posts: 33

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:28 pm

Post Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:50 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Just curious, but what is the purpose of modifyng Knuck heads to fit on Pan Jugs? The heads are expensive and the jugs are inexpensive by comparison, so why would someone do that to perfectly good Knuck heads? Is there any advantage to Pan jugs over Knuck jugs that I am missing?
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john k. endrizzi

User avatar

Posts: 726

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 1999 1:01 am

Location: nekoosa,wisconsin,usa

Post Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Boots99,
Sometime after your day Knucklehead cylinders became scarce. This was before B.A. ( before Anders) ! Back then Pan cylinders were all that was available .
JKE
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
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wilko

Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

Post Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

I didn't think the knuck heads needed modding only the pan jugs to suit knuck heads. Am i wrong? Bolt pattern that is.
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Boots99

Posts: 33

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:28 pm

Post Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:23 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

I don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but some of you guys are real restorers. I just build stuff I like for myself. I'm asking to learn from you. But knuck jugs have been available from V-Twin for a long time. Low quality, but available. Also, has anyone come up with a method for putting a quality steel sleeve in a beat up old knuck cylinder or a low quality V-Twin cylinder? I would think those options would have been better then butchering up nice knuck heads.
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panic

Post Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:03 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

only the pan jugs

Let me know when it's done.
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Beachdog

Posts: 765

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 12:01 am

Location: CA USA

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:01 am

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

We put the pan jugs into the knuck motor most times at the request of a customer. Conventional wisdom was that pan jugs were stronger, probably were. At least they were available and cheap. Tedd didn't exist. Aftermarket jugs didn't exist. A few folks made expensive stuff. I think axtell and some others did. Sleeving was not as reliable as it is today. Very few folks were concerned with correctness, just gettin down the rode with as strong and reliable a motor as we were capable of building back in the dark ages. Now were trying to undo all the fixes of old. Jerry referred to the overlap of the bolt holes. Here's a good pic in this ebay auction of the head bolt hole overlap that occurs when you change to pan barrels on a knuck.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... K:MEWAX:IT
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Jerry Wieland

Posts: 606

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:47 am

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Here is what could happen to Knucklehead barrels. They do not have the reserve of strength that panhead cylinders had. The 2 blown cylinders that I have seen - 1. had 1 dark piston and one light so may have had air leak and 2. Point gap was off so maybe one cylinder was out of time.

To put pan barrels on a knuck you have to trim ot remove the firering on the cylinder and move the bolt on the head.

Image

Image

Sorry Jon for using you as an example. This happened late last fall.

Jerry
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Jerry Wieland

Posts: 606

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:52 am

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

When Killer's knuckle blew a cylinder years ago Kyle (Amklyde) said that there was nothing apparent that could have caused it and I believe it was only +.040 and I have a FL barrel at standard with stress cracks.

Jerry
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panic

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:56 am

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Pan barrels seem to have considerably more strength at the flange.
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ncmc47

Posts: 18

Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:50 pm

Location: Valentine, NE 69201

Post Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

How about modifying pan cylinders to knuckle head bolt pattern. I have n.o.s. S&S cylinders for 3 5/8 " bore and don't want to modify heads. Can it be done?
Thanx
Steve
It's a hard life if you don"t weaken.
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panic

Post Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:19 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

Locate the missing bolt area on the barrel.
Where does the bolt go?
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Jerry Wieland

Posts: 606

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA

Post Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:21 pm

Re: Knucle vs. Pan cylinder head bolt pattern question?

I suppose anything is possible but I wonder if maybe you will run out of casting? Or do a trade with a guy that already has modified pan barrels. I just happen to know of such an individual and no it is not me.

Jerry

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