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offset bearing cups

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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:43 am

offset bearing cups

there's a thread going about offset ( raked ) steering head bearings on a Sporster on the HDRCGB forum at present.

I'd feel these are fundamentally unsound because;

(a) there is no practical value to fitting extended forks to a Sporty anyway
(b) having your steering geometry dependent on something pushed into the steering head is counter to the usually accepted principle that the frame's main purpose is to provide a fixed relationship between the wheels, and jig construction provides the best control of this at construction stage
(c) there's a comment about 'the misalignment being distributed over 180 degree' which frankly, I can't make any sense of

thoughts, anyone?
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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panic

Post Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:21 am

Re: offset bearing cups

I appreciate the thought, but using facts and physics to argue with posers is banging your head against the wall. "How well it works" isn't even on the same page as "how kewl it looks, dude".
Let's remember the dominant influence here: Willy G. over-rode the engineering dep't. and 125 years of chassis research, and chose the fork angle of the biggest product development outlay in 20 years based on styling.
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s eagle

Posts: 24

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 1:06 pm

Location: My-am-mah, Flor-a-duh

Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:01 am

Re: offset bearing cups

panic wrote:I appreciate the thought, but using facts and physics to argue with posers is banging your head against the wall. "How well it works" isn't even on the same page as "how kewl it looks, dude".
Let's remember the dominant influence here: Willy G. over-rode the engineering dep't. and 125 years of chassis research, and chose the fork angle of the biggest product development outlay in 20 years based on styling.



panic,

I hate to sound like a neophyte, but can you please explain specifically what you’re alluding to in the highlighted text above?
Steven

1946 knucklehead
1976 shovelhead
2006 road king

Youth and enthusiasm is no match for age and treachery.
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Kev UK

Posts: 171

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Location: Carmarthen, Wales, UK

Post Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:12 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

s eagle wrote:


panic,

I hate to sound like a neophyte, but can you please explain specifically what you’re alluding to in the highlighted text above?



I suspect he means the Super Glide; the bastard child of an overweight chassis mated to inadequate front forks. In other words, the triumph of style over substance.
72 Ironhead, goes better than it stops!

42(?)WLC

79FLH

2005 XL1200R.... well ya gotta have a rat-bike!
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:59 am

Re: offset bearing cups

I was guessing that it was the 'Soft-tail' chassis.

I would have thought that 'development' spending on the Super Glide chassis was about fourpence ha'penny, apart from a new set of bearing cups to match the different steering stems?
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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thefrenchowl

User avatar

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Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:43 am

Re: offset bearing cups

I'd rather think Panic's talking about the abortion called the V Rod!!!

Patrick
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:10 am

Re: offset bearing cups

so many choices....
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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s eagle

Posts: 24

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 1:06 pm

Location: My-am-mah, Flor-a-duh

Post Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:42 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

After reading the responses, and rereading panic's post, I have to go with the V-rod.
Steven

1946 knucklehead
1976 shovelhead
2006 road king

Youth and enthusiasm is no match for age and treachery.
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RUBONE

Posts: 381

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Post Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:03 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

45 Brit,
The Superglide cups are the same as Electra-Glide, The stem was changed to big-twin specs. Still dirt cheap.
I vote for the V-Rod as the biggest POS. I was excited about the new engine until I saw what it was housed in.
Robbie
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

ok, make that fourpence three-farthings
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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panic

Post Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:36 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

Yup - V-Rod, his decision to make the fork angle match parts of the chassis... as a fashion statement.

Today he looks like Willie Nelson.
When I looked like that, 40 years ago, he was a little nerd-boy with a crew cut, Elvis Costello glasses and a bow tie.
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thefrenchowl

User avatar

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Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:30 am

Re: offset bearing cups

1967...

Image

Patrick
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Kozy

Posts: 22

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:18 am

Location: Michigan

Post Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:46 am

Re: offset bearing cups

"Willie's" comments in the 1967 ad seem to run contrary to what he did with the V-Rod geometry but he did go to styling school rather than engineering school!
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panic

Post Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:51 am

Re: offset bearing cups

In future, let's just save the time and trouble and simply agree that I'm wrong, shall we?
Much better.
Last edited by panic on Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MarkBranst

Posts: 348

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:36 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

panic wrote:Posing isn't a school - it's the conceit that you have better taste than your customers, and they should pay you to impose it upon them.


All "new" or "improved" products are created by people that believe that they have better ways of designing or producing a given product ... In many of those cases the underlying theme HAS to be that you have "better taste than your customers" or at least your competitors ... Whether I would call that "conceit" or not is a very different question. NOBODY forces a customer to accept their "taste" ... that always remains at the discretion of the customer. Willie has been very, very successful at marketing his taste, whether you like it or not ... On the other hand, the aftermarket proves that not everybody agrees, as does the continued presence of a lot of other motorcycle companies.

Mark
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:36 am

Re: offset bearing cups

panic's use of 'conceit' makes pefect sense in the British English sense of a concept or point of view, as well as the sense of 'sense of self-importance', I don't know how it scans in US English.

I'm afraid Willie G, and the train of thought he embodies, is the reason I lost interest in modern Harleys.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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thefrenchowl

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Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:18 am

Re: offset bearing cups

Most of the time, progress just equals made cheaper on a budjet...

Then the sales teams try to disguise "defects" as "better engineering", like 5 or 6 speed gearbox versus old 3 or 4, modern Zamac type diecast crankcases versus old sand cast ones etc... Only posers can swallow such bitter pills for the sake of fashion...

There's a huge difference between Cult and mere fashion...

Patrick
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amklyde

Posts: 626

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:01 am

Location: Wisconsin, USA

Post Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:59 am

Re: offset bearing cups

Obviously none of you characters have ever spent any time on a V-Rod. I have never met anyone that actually put some miles on one, that didn't come to enjoy and respect the ride, including myself.
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thefrenchowl

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Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:47 am

Re: offset bearing cups

Hi amklyde

LOL!!! Wonder then why they're such poor sellers???? Here in GB, nobody want them apparently...

Patrick
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Kurt

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Location: Tucson Arizona

Post Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: offset bearing cups

amklyde wrote:Obviously none of you characters have ever spent any time on a V-Rod. I have never met anyone that actually put some miles on one, that didn't come to enjoy and respect the ride, including myself.


I was going to say something to that effect but chose not to based on bias towards the bike, but since you said something amklyde I will.

It's a good riding bike.....it's f--king fast and I personally would love to own a factory hot rod.

If the design is so screwed up and Willie G threw out decades of factory engineering.....well.....he did it right.
The one I road handled great at low speeds putting through town, and at 130 mph I wasn't afraid one bit.
So if the geometry is messed up....it works anyway.

Hell....they're running high 10's low 11's out of the crate. The Destroyer is over 165 hp......

Let's see a hot rodded knuckle with no suspension mods do that.......all day.
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