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WLA Trans In Progress

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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:24 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

I can't recommend whether you should keep the reverse gear or go with a straight 3 speed with no reverse. That option is up to you. Do you have the reverse idler gear as well ? I have a reverse transmission in my solo bobber project. I chose it for my personal preference. You can build yours how you want it. I imagine your original 3 speed trans was swapped out for a servicar trans at sometime, rather than to rebuild the original solo one that came with it. Your bike may even have been built from parts collected. Transmissions with the reverse gear have different tank shifter gates. Do you have a reverse tank shifter gate ? If so, what year is your reverse shifter gate ? To answer your main question....no, the reverse gear does not have a washer between the rollers and itself. The gear takes the place of a thrust surface for the rollers. If you decide to go straight three speed and use the spacing collar, the spacing collar is not separated by a thrust washer either. The spacing collar acts as the thrust washer also. You mentioned "(outer race ID - main shaft OD - .0007 clearance)/2. ???? The fit is not .0007" per side. It is .0007" total clearance or .00035" per side. What Bruce was explaining about the shifter cam and the marks is exactly that. It is how you time the shifter cam to the shifter gear [ where you mesh the beveled tooth of the shifter cams gear to the shifter gear ]. Note the shifter gear in the photo in one of my previous posts. You will see the number 3 stamped near the notched mark I used for the 3 speed. That number three is for reverse shifting timing. Pa
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100incscoot

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Post Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:40 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa wrote:Back to the build....Referencing the 3575-41A rear chain oilers, pipe clip, and the 3580-41 rear chain oiler pipe clip, which mounts under the 2086-41 starter crank spring stud, I illustrated the differences between the two oiler pipe clips, in the photo directly below. I cannot find a part number for the clip attached to the actual rear chain oiler pipe. I don't know if there is one for it. The oiler pipe comes as an assembly. Pa

Image


i can only speculate the clip with the 5/16 mounting hole must have been the earlier model cause all my 44 up covers have a 3/8" mounting hole for the spring retaining stud
of course i'm just guessing but i'd say 41-43 had the smaller mounting hole oiler
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:53 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

I'll keep my fingers crossed that your speculation is dead on Scoot. Since this transmission is an early 42WLA type III, the 5/16" hole would be perfect for it then. My parts book shows the 061 bolt going through it and the 061 bolt is a 5/16" diameter thread. Would you happen to know if the oiler pipe clip was sold separately or as a replacement part as well ? If it was, there should be a part number for it somewhere. Pa
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Kurt

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Post Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:13 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa, you need both clamps for the oiler.

One mounts on the starter spring stud and the other goes on the front bolt of the rear chain guard.

Kurt
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Brendan

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Post Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:57 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Thanks for helping
It’s pieces of a bike right now.

I want to convert it to a 3 speed.
Shift gate is 2208-40 front 1 N 2 3 back.
At the moment it's swapped
I think if I put a 2243-41 cam in, it will match what I want. Its a 1947+ Cam at the moment. It's mirrored

Engine is early WLA, frame is later.

Forest through the trees situation. I have been staring at thousandths of inches and bearing races all day and I can't see a big FAT Mirrored shifting CAM.

Brendan
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Pa

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:53 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Kurt wrote:Pa, you need both clamps for the oiler.

One mounts on the starter spring stud and the other goes on the front bolt of the rear chain guard.

Kurt


Absolutely Kurt. I hope my photo illustration wasn't misleading. The photo was to show the differences between the two clips for an early type III transmission. The parts books makes a person think, the stud clip shown in the parts book illustrations, is the clip on the oiler pipe assembly. Thus the reason for the illustration. Two different clips...two different mounting points. Pa
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Pa

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:27 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Photograph below shows the 3580-41 rear chain oiler pipe clip installed beneath the starter crank spring stud. I've initially installed it so it is parallel to the mounting surface at the bottom of the transmission case. I will be able to tweak it later, if alignment is off any. Since I had to remove the starter crank spring from the starter crank spring stud, and remove the starter crank spring stud itself, in order to mount the chain oiler pipe clip, I just followed initial assembly procedures, previously posted. Pa

Image
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100incscoot

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:55 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

paul your pic tricked me
i was thinking you were saying there were 2 different clips for the one the mounting at the spring bolt
i didn't even think of the top mounting spot
thanx kurt for setting us or at least me straight

paul its much easier to install the oiler pipe clips as a unit after the trans is in the bike
you shouldn't have to tweek the clip at all as it points right to the chain
except it should be on a 90 degree angle with the trans base

brenden
i probly have anything you need for that trans
i'm sure i do in fact
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Pa

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:36 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

100incscoot wrote:paul your pic tricked me
i was thinking you were saying there were 2 different clips for the one the mounting at the spring bolt
i didn't even think of the top mounting spot
thanx kurt for setting us or at least me straight

paul its much easier to install the oiler pipe clips as a unit after the trans is in the bike
you shouldn't have to tweek the clip at all as it points right to the chain
except it should be on a 90 degree angle with the trans base


Nope...but after Kurt posted, I could see how my mounting clip posting, could have been misunderstood as it was. Thus my explaination to the illustration of the two clips. I sure ain't no writer....for sure ! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I weighed the clip installation procedure of installation and decided to go ahead and toss this one on. I realize, if the pipe doesn't drop down, through the stud mounted clip hole, smoothly, I will have to pull the starter spring and stud again to open it up a bit. After putting the springs on and off so many times, it is a breeze for me now. At least, as it is installed now, I won't forget where and how it goes on. :mrgreen: Oh Yeah...I do have it at 90 degrees to the trans case. There is my writing skills again....I said parallel to the trans mounting. Same thing though....but 90 degrees is much easier to comprehend, even for me. :lol: Pa
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Pa

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:38 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

I've now installed the 2076-41 starter crank arm.NO I DIDN"T ! The 2078-26 starter crank pinch bolt and a 0129 nut secure the crank are to the countershaft.PLUS ANOTHER PART :oops: It is a bit tricky getting the pinch bolt in place.NOT WHEN YOU PUT IT IN CORRECTLY :oops: When the starter crank arm is completed retracted, and since the bolt is installed from the right side to the left, NO IT ISN"T there is not enough room or clearance to install it, unless the starter crank arm is rotated counter clockwise, to gain the needed clearance for installment.DOES NOT APPLY I find it easiest to install the arm onto the countershaft, making certain the hole in the starter crank arm is lined up with the radius groove,APPLIES before making the rotation of the starter crank arm DOES NOT APPLY, for the pinch bolt installation. The next three photos below show the starter crank installed INCORRECTLY :oops: . Pa

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FlatHeadSix

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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:45 am

Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:47 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

just thought I'd throw a word of caution in here for Brendan, and anyone else. You can swap the mirror image shift drums between the early and late transmission, either way will work, but if the drum is the only part you change the timing marks will no longer be of any use. You will have to set the timing by "eye", or by trial and error. If you have both pieces you should change the lever and the drum as a set.

mike
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Pa

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

You are absolutely correct Mike...and thanks for pointing that out. Myself...I hate counting teeth, just to get the timing on. There are plenty of oem and nos oem parts out there to make it easier to complete a build. Pa
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100incscoot

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

the picture you show above of the clip installed is at a angle not 90 degrees to the case thats the only reason i brought it up
i hate to be anal but as you know i am
yes my ol lady has a love hate about that for me
heres two more for you
how are you going to install the clutch arm bolts with the kicker arm already on?
maybe the earlier short ones will go in but the 44 up ones wont with the starter arm on the shaft
i'm honestly not looking for these things
but when i saw your last pick i thought it looked funny to me
its something i never understood about HD
why would you put a bolt in so if the nut came off the bolt falls out or down like bt trans bolts or 45 motor bolts?
but anyway
i guess this should solve the hard installation issue though
you got the kicker arm bolt installed backwards if you want it correct by HDs standards anyway
also your missing the washer part #0261 the one the PARTS BOOK [hint]doesn't tell you about or show you at least the military one doesn't and its the most reliable one i've found
the middle pic showing a view of the washer is a 41 by the way
i hate to see you lose points over something as easy as putting the bolt in correctly
damn i have had to edit this a few times
i just looked the later 49-57 model book corrected that washer not being in the parts book
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FlatHeadSix

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:03 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa
Scoot is absolutely right about the direction of the bolt on the kicker arm. The kicker arms with the milled flat on them make it obvious which way they install, the early ones do not. There are two very imprtant reasons to install it the correct way; if installed the way you have it you will bash the exposed bolt threads and nut against the boss on the sprocket cover at the bottom end of each kick stroke and mess them up, the other reason is that the special slightly rounded thin head of the bolt acts as a stop when it hits the boss on the sprocket cover at the end of its stroke allowing the arm to make a complete swing far enough so that the tripper bolts will disengage the starter gear. That's one of the reasons that they recommend keeping your foot on the starter pedal holding the arm in the down position after each starting attempt, it prevents kick-back of the arm in the event that the engine doesn't start or back fires or whatever.

mike
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john HD

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

100inch,

why would you put a bolt in so if the nut came off the bolt falls out or down like bt trans bolts or 45 motor bolts?


by your statement i assume you mean installing a bolt through an assembly from the bottom up with the nut on the top?

in my prior life building radio and tv towers i learned the hard way how to install hardware on structures and devices that vibrate. in the case of a tower there are pads where the sections bolt together. ususally 20 or 30 feet apart.

i know you are asking "what the heck does this have to do with putting bolts in a harley?" towers vibrate as the wind passes over them. alot!

i used to think the same way, when something vibrates the nut will fall off leaving the bolt in place. it actually vibrates down the threads with gravity. if you install a fastener from the bottom up the nut vibrates down the threads leaving both the nut and bolt in place.

we tried to install the couple of hundred bolts and nuts on a structure we built in a tv station parking lot with the nuts down. guess what? within 2 months we were back turning all of them "right side up" after a couple dozen car windshields and hoods were destroyed. we never had another complaint after installing the fasteners the right way.

if you don't believe me take a large fastener and put a nut on it, take a palm sander and vibrate it. see what happens! try it both directions.

i have to think the factory applied the same principal to vertical fasteners on bikes.

john
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Pa

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:39 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Image

You Folks Will Never let Me Live This One Down. :lol: Hope my photo above speaks for itself. I don't know what the hell I was thinking !!!!!!!!!!!!! :oops: I am sure glad you spotted the starter crank bolt Mike !!!!!! I'm not as concerned with loosing a point [ it's easy enough to reverse on the spot ] as I am concerned with steering other builders wrong, during this build. My whole intention was to help them out, not hinder them. I never squeezed a turd in my hand, but I definitely know what shit feels like now. :mrgreen:

Check out how I edited the above photos and text. Hope you all approve of the editing. I didn't remove any of my original text. I just added to it.

What a blunder though !!! The starter crank bolt !!!!! Guess it shows that I am ALMOST human. HEH ? :mrgreen: Thanks a MILLION Mike and John !!!!!!

About the oiler pipe clip Mike........I'm pretty sure I have it positioned correctly. My camera angle and the transmission leaning way over, due to the bottom frame mounting studs, may have provided an optical illusion to you. The first photo below shows a better view of the clip as mounted. I leveled the transmission for this photo. The second photo below shows the bolt, lock washer, and nut, correctly installed this time. Thanks for pointing out the 061 lock washer as well Bro !! My military parts books don't show it, but my civilian ones do. Funny.......I had an 061 lock washer, in my trans parts for this build. It is on the starter crank pinch bolt now. :wink:

On the clutch release arm......I didn't have any real difficulty installing the pivot bolts into it. [ Yeah.....it is already assembled to the trans. I assemble and then post on it, as I go along with the build ] I think the early narrow type clutch release arm and early narrow type sprocket cover, for the early clutch release arm, is why though. No doubt it would be impossible, on the later wide clutch release arm and later wide sprocket cover, for the later wide clutch release arm, to put the clutch release arm pivot bolts in, with the starter crank already on. Pa

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Pa

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:57 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

NOW..............If I don't BLUNDER AGAIN !!!! :lol:

Starter crank pedal installation.........

I installed the 2091-16 starter crank pedal, the 2101-31 starter pedal pin bushing, the 2102-30 starter pedal pin spring washer, the 0224 starter pedal pin washer, and the 2100-16 starter pedal pin bolt. Installing these pedal parts is not difficult, but three of them, must be installed simultaneously. To install the parts, it is best to have the transmission side cover side facing you. The 2091-starter crank pedal mounting lug has a radius side to it. This radius side goes into the starter crank slot first. The foot position area of the pedal should be facing to the right, when installing the radius side of it, into the starter crank arm. according to my military books, the 2102-30 starter pedal pin spring washer goes in on the bottom side of the starter crank pedal mounting lug. The starter pedal pin spring washer is curved. The hump side of the starter pedal pin spring washers curve, faces up towards the starter crank pedals mounting lug. The 2101-31 starter pedal pin bushing, slides into the bore in the starter crank pedal. The bushing is longer, than the starter crank pedals mounting lug is wide. The extra length is used to position and to retain, the spring washer in place. It is these three parts, which must go into the starter crank arm simultaneously. You will feel resistance while installing the three parts do to the tension, created by the starter pedal pin spring washer. Once the parts are seated into the starter crank arm, look down through the hole in the starter crank arm, to make sure all the holes are inline. If they are off a bit, use a tapered punch to line them up. Once aligned, the 0224 starter pedal pin washer and the 2100-16 starter pedal pin bolt, can be installed, and tightened securely. Sorry......no torque specs for this either. A Note about the position of the 2102-30 starter pedal pin spring washer.......Again...My military manuals, show the 2102-30 starter pedal spring washer, as positioned, on the bottom side of the 2091-16 starter crank pedal. Several of my civilian manuals show the starter pedal pin spring washer, as positioned, on the top side of the starter crank pedal. Operationally, I don’t see, whether placing it on top, or placing it on the bottom, as long as the hump side of the spring washer faces the pedal, would effect the movement, or locking ability of it, either way. How about some comments on this ???

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Chris Haynes

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:25 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

That is a World War II Production kicker pedal. It shouldn't have a 1916 part number.
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Pa

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

The -16 puzzled me Chris also. Pa

Taken from page 32 of "SNL G-523

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100incscoot

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Post Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

john
i think a hd has a heck of a lot more vibration then a tower does
i may be wrong but i was a auto mechanic for many yrs and i'd swear the build most cars upside down then turn them over to finish them
the trans starter arm bolt in question installed they way paul did could not fall out as it would hit the clutch arm
i'm not saying your wrong by any means but i bet they did it for ease/speed of production

paul
hey i honestly was just trying to help you get it right
you notice i only picked on you a little right?

chris from my very limited knowledge
the part # never changed on tons of parts even though the part did drasticly
well unless HD wanted to change the number or leave the part out of some books as we all know they did
Last edited by 100incscoot on Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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