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'48-57 Exhaust Review & Dixie No-Go

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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:59 am

'48-57 Exhaust Review & Dixie No-Go

The exhaust system is installed. I had to reverse the "kick" in the "Y" pipe to correct the angle to the muffler, so it would sit level.
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I can move the front and rear headers with my hand. Nothing is "bound" between the headers or the flat-pipe or the "Y" hubs and spigots. It feels custom installed.
Let's go visit every area of junction:
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The front header has a 1/32 of margin around the entire top of the hub. The hub is not bound to the spigot. If I wanted to pull the header down, I would find 1/16" of free play. You can see where I ground too much material off at the top of an old slot we filled. I'm going to cut (4) 0.060" squeeze-slots, 1/2" long, in the hub with that grit-blade. Re-cutting the fill welds in the two slots we filled and then two more in new metal.
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The front header spigot fully seats in the flat-pipe hub. There is plenty of clearance between the flat-pipe and the crankcase.
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The rear header has at least a 1/32" margin around the entire perimeter of the hub. If I wanted to move the pipe or pull it away from the head a 1/16 of an inch, that would be possible. The rear header is not bound-up. (4) squeeze slots will be cut, 1/2" long.
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This is the flat-pipe bracket we re-positioned. I needed to elongate the hole a little, but we were close. This bracket position is important. It is an alignment position anchor. You may need to order this piece in two parts, un-chromed, mark your own custom bracket position and TiG weld to suit. You might be able to have the flat-pipe chromed later at Dennis Corso.
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This turned out to be one of two rub areas. The backside of the brake arm makes contact with the flat-pipe during part of the swing action. I'll probably need to grind off a little material to cure the problem.
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We closed the cuts in the pipe with a clamp, tacked the #2 and #3 cuts then released the clamp. Stett filled cuts #2 and #3.
Cuts #1 and #4 remained open, with no closure. He filled those. (Where would we be without the dedicated craftsmen with the tools, know how and mechanical discipline necessary to do the job right the first time :?: ) http://stettsironhorseranch.com/ Minimum, we'd be lost.
The transmission is positioned fully forward because I needed to be sure the trans. didn't strike the rear header. With the transmission positioned fully back, there is 5/32 of air gap between the top of the pipe and the bottom of the kick cover.
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The arch of the "Y" pipe seats the rear header almost completely.
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This is the other rub area. The muffler makes contact with the frame rail. I've seen rectangular indents in some of the pipes. I think I'll use a piece of rectangle brass stock and smack the muffler in a calculated spot to provide relief from this malady. Note: The only way I'm going to make the tool box fit, is to custom make some "reach" brackets. This bracket is nowhere near correct placement.
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And I needed a spacer to keep the muffler and "Y" pipe in straight alignment. I'm using the bottom-most hole in the bracket, which leaves the top hole hanging out. I may cut off the top part of the tab and round it off.
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You may not have the same problems I did, but we kicked this cantankerous exhaust system's silly ass.
Last edited by Plumber on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ohio-rider

Posts: 236

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:26 am

Location: Ohio

Post Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:55 am

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Job well done Plumber. It looks great. -Steve
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2648

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:37 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Sure makes me glad I bought a Superior system for my Knuck bobber. Now if i could only find a real Superior branded muffler.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:12 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Has anyone ever bought a Dennis Corso Co. made, 10-1/2" "Y" pipe for a rigid frame Pan, and had it bolt right on and not had a muffler angle-placement issue with the upswept kick :?:
Now that mine's successfully modified, I'm just wondering if my '97 V-Twin frame was the reason for the pipe direction problem?
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panacea

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Location: Mpls. area

Post Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Do you have his number? I'll order the squish and the 10 1/2" Y and replace the 58-65 parts I was sold by Paughco as the "right" parts. Mike
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:23 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

I've got to get my notification thing fixed for this FHP site. It doesn't notify me and I just saw your question. Just as well in this case, because now when you call him to order your flat pipe, ask him he's looked at the "Dixie" Post of Ohio-Rider's and compare the two Y-pipe examples. His with the "kick" and Dixie's without the kick. Ask him if he saw how the muffler would be more in line with meeting the correct level and height of where the muffler should hang, if his "Y" pipe didn't have that kick.
If your would do that, then tell him I put you up to it, as a condition of giving you his phone number. Anything that gets you off the hook and gets this "Y" pipe kick-thing fixed. http://www.denniscorso.com/
And do a lot of hand wringing over whether you should order the flat-pipe as one-piece or two piece and weld your own bracket-to-frame piece. Ask him if he will then chrome it when you send it back to him.
The nice lady at Corso, seemed to understand that an entire replication industry was hinged on their "Y" piece. Yes, you can buy from Dixie, but for how long will they have pipe stock like Ohio-Rider scored?
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PanPal

Posts: 13

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Post Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:49 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

I have seen two different style rear pipes when looking for my true dual set up. I have a 59 and the bend to the exhaust port is more extreme then several I looked at. Are there differences in the port angle on the heads on some years, or is it the way the pipe can route through the frame to be mounted from a Rigid or swingarm. I have a replacement rear head on the 59 with the boss that can be drilled out for outside oiling. Are the ports the same angle on this head as my original? With all the CNC machinery making parts, exhaust pipe should be able to be made to bolt on if eveything is the same on the frame and motor. Welding an extension on the front header has been mentioned many times over the years on these forums. I never saw someone have to cut the header in half to realign it. Was this because of your set up or would it have been the same way on an unmolested machine? Flat pipes never seem to line up with the mount. If you were to order 2 flat pipes........ would they have the tab in the same place on both? Would 2 front header pipes be identicle from Ted?

Plumber, your putting a 59 motor in a rigid frame. Are there differences that could have caused some of your issues. Have the exhaust ports been repaired? are you running aftermarket heads. etc. I guess I am asking for clarification. Is the motor totally OEM? Are there differences with your motor and a motor that went in a riged frame?
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

The only thing that is different for me than most people is that I have a 1997 V-Twin frame. No one could have a frame that is (was) worse than mine. I hold the record for return-to-factory adjustments. Yea my exh. spigots were re-manufactured, but not removed from their original position. Beads were laid side by side at Accurate and then milled round. No change of direction. My '97 frame may have been my front header problem, but most definitely, the front header from Corso was long enough, just not arced enough. That's why I had to cut it in two.
Sounds like the Dixie-style front header is too short.
The '58-64 header is too short for a rigid frame, no matter who makes it.
Every problem with these rigid frame Pans can be overcome, if you bolt on every part as soon as you get the frame, you'll suffer less. But you are going to suffer something through a "build".

It turns out, after some more phone calls today, that those "Dixie" style (flat) "Y" pipes are also available at Kick-Start (616) 245-8991. Some rigid frames are going to need to use the Corso® "kicked" version of the "Y" pipe, and some are going to need to use the "straight" version of the ('36-57) "Y" pipe. Which one is correct for you? That's a mystery choice.
I ordered a Dixie-style Y pipe from Kick-Start to make a pic comparison of straight and kick styles by Wednesday if they sent it priority.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Here's your choices. There never was a problem. It just needed some illuminating for me to grasp the concept. One of these will fit your rigid frame pan. We hope it isn't the bottom one.
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panacea

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Location: Mpls. area

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

"So put that in your pipe and smoke it!" Plumber, have you tried the one from Chuck? I spoke with him on Sat. and he has a pile of the strait "Y" pipes. I'd like to see if the strait one allows the front end of the muffler to clear the lower frame rail before I order one. Keep up the good work! Mike
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

I hung it up in place before i snapped the pics. It fit into the Corso flat-pipe hub perfect. I pushed the muffler on. It looks like it's going to be a good fit and the correct alignment when it's all together.
The Corso rear header fits the Dixie/Kick-Start "Y" sweet :!: - tighter than the Corso fits the Corso "Y" even, in my case.
I'll snap a pic of the Dixie installed. How about that hub-Y on the dixie? cool huh? I've heard Dixie still makes some parts. Visiting the gentleman that owns the place would be quite an interview.
Do you think we can get the industry to send Dave Despain from SpeedChannel to make a archeological expedition to Dixie? Fun to watch on the telly. They ought to televise something about early OHV every day at lunch on Saturdays and Sundays, several times a day. Let it run for 6 months.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2648

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:31 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Visiting the gentleman that owns the place would be quite an interview.
Do you think we can get the industry to send Dave Despain from SpeedChannel to make a archeological expedition to Dixie? Fun to watch on the telly. They ought to televise something about early OHV every day at lunch on Saturdays and Sundays, several times a day. Let it run for 6 months.[/quote]

Harry would be a good interview. But the inside of the building is an unorganized shit hole.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:35 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

All the better. Take that "Dirty Jobs" guy with you and see if he can handle a burned out-stored-parts "filth-dig". Wear pith helmets and headlamps. Open a crate and get hung-up on the contents. Ought to take a week to film. Camp out inside. Start a trash can fire to keep warm.
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4775

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

The shit hole appearance and the crates of dusty, wet, or rusted parts keep the property and inventory taxes down. :wink:
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2648

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:58 am

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Plumber wrote:All the better. Take that "Dirty Jobs" guy with you and see if he can handle a burned out-stored-parts "filth-dig". Wear pith helmets and headlamps. Open a crate and get hung-up on the contents. Ought to take a week to film. Camp out inside. Start a trash can fire to keep warm.


If you think there are any unopened crates there your are sadly mistaken. Dixie has been ransacked by the best. :mrgreen:
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ohio-rider

Posts: 236

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:26 am

Location: Ohio

Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:55 am

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Hey Guys.... One last question and my exhaust will be complete. Is there suppose to be a frame clamp to secure the front header pipe to the down tube? If so, where should it be located? -Steve
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:03 am

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

Yea, there's two. One for the frame tube and one for the front header. The panhandles of each clamp meet. I'll try and assemble mine along with that Dixie-Y this morning (and check to see if the Dixie-Y allows the front of the muffler to clear the lower frame rail).....but I haven't had my cornflakes yet.
The clamps will go in the most natural place they will fit, where ever the header comes close to the frame. I believe the frame clamps panhandle is place (arm pit) side up and meets the header clamp which is placed (arm pit) side down.
Mindful that if you're planning on using the flex heat cover tubes, that the front flex cover will have to be shortened a little, since it will probably hit the clamps. I cut my flex cover off at the bottom, and brazed a spot on the raw, pointed, sharp, bitter-end so it wouldn't unravel and fall apart.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2648

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:49 pm

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

ohio-rider wrote:Hey Guys.... One last question and my exhaust will be complete. Is there suppose to be a frame clamp to secure the front header pipe to the down tube? If so, where should it be located? -Steve


here is where it goes.
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amklyde

Posts: 626

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:01 am

Location: Wisconsin, USA

Post Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:41 am

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

It seems HD used different locations for the pipe bracket depending on whether or not an exhaust cover was used. The coverless pipes are secured above the sidecar mount casting.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2648

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:01 am

Re: '48-57 Exhaust Review

amklyde wrote:It seems HD used different locations for the pipe bracket depending on whether or not an exhaust cover was used. The coverless pipes are secured above the sidecar mount casting.


I have looked at dozens of factoy phots of Panheads. I find NONE without the flex cover on the pipe.
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