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59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:27 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I talked to Dennis Corso about my front header pipe not having enough arc, and we narrowed the problem down to my (thrice returned to Corbin for adjustment) 1997, V-Twin frame. They've sold many header sets and mine has been the only complaint, (with the front header having a 1/2" over-drop).
Ain't exhaust pipes fun :?: - PanPal

They said if a customer wanted to order the flat-pipe and bracket as two separate raw metal pieces, then assemble the exhaust pipes on the motorcycle, then bolt the bracket to the frame tab and mark a line around the bracket tab where it makes contact with the flat-pipe, and then have it TiG welded, they can do that. It's your call. But, there's help offered on the flat-pipe side of any problems.
He said he used a long breaker bar to custom bend a front header for a frame-damaged Knuckle - saying it would be an easier task with two people, but he bent some arc into the front header by himself.
So, I have a rare front header problem and the only iffy piece to a rigid frame exhaust would be the flat-pipe (aka squish-pipe, "s" pipe) -to-frame bracket positioning. Use theirs chromed or weld your own.
http://www.denniscorso.com/
ImagePete Aschwanden
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Here's the separate bracket from D. Corso. Having the separate pieces allows you to custom fit the bracket to the pipe and frame as needed. Then chrome the flat-pipe later. He indicated it might be possible to send the flat-pipe back for chroming as long as customers made the mailing and payment a smooth transition.
I mailed a flat-pipe to him and he sent me these back in my same box. So, spend some time looking for a good re-usable box, if necessary. He's extending himself to help, so preparation on our part can help it all move forward.
Image
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ohio-rider

Posts: 230

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:26 am

Location: Ohio

Post Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Hey Plumber.... I've been enjoying this kit project you are working on.
I have a quick question for ya. Would you recommend the Vtwin four piece exhaust?
I'm about ready to order their stuff and I'm hoping not to have the same troubles as you have been having. I don't mind the $200. but I'm hoping it will be a bolt on, kind of thing.
-Steve
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2621

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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:11 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Steve,
Save yourself money and grief and get the stuff you need from Dixie. Any shop can order from Dixie. Dixie is located in Columbus ya know.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:28 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I'm about ready to order their stuff and I'm hoping not to have the same troubles as you have been having. I don't mind the $200. but I'm hoping it will be a bolt on, kind of thing.

My problems were traced back to the 1997 V-Twin frame they stuck me with.
In the specific subject of the famous "Four-Piece Exhaust System" I have to recommend contacting the supplier direct. http://www.denniscorso.com/
As regards to the flat-pipe in that kit; the "riveted" bracket and it's position, imo, vary from piece to piece. I've had three, and sometimes the bracket is 1/4" forward of the rear flat-pipe hub and sometimes the bracket is closer to the rear hub, bell, whatever. The *bracket's position is important, so I sugg., order the raw flat-pipe and bracket separate - put them on the machine and mark the bracket position and send it back to Dennis and let him weld and chrome it. Your's will be the first test-case to see if the whole process is just another added pain-in-the-butt for him or will we create an easy-to-do system? Just, if you do that raw bracket thing, let us know how it went in real life.
I have nothing against V-Twin. In this exact (flat-pipe bracket position) area of a rigid frame OHV, the exhaust system is an area where you need to be in touch with the source and not a dealer.
If you can find OEM - rave on. Be a seeker. Good road :!:

* The brackets position needs to be "custom" because sometimes you need to rotate the flat-pipe's seam past 3 o'clock, and push the seam-edge down to 4 o'clock, or up to 2 o'clock (bracket will strike frame tab and stop turning) and the bracket might not line up with the hole in the frame bracket, and it might need to be re-positioned forward or back too. Order it as two raw parts or take a chance on the kit fitting. If you have an OEM frame, the odds are in your favor of being a direct bolt-up.
Last edited by Plumber on Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ohio-rider

Posts: 230

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:26 am

Location: Ohio

Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:21 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Sounds like Dixie is the way for me to go.
Thanks for steering me straight again guys.
-Steve
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:45 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Sounds like Dixie is the way for me to go.

Good choice. Diversity will keep the OHV market alive. I've heard about the mythical Dixie® exhaust (aka, the elusive bigfoot), but have never seen them (or their flat-pipe).
I have a set of n.o.s.a. (new old stock aftermarket) Superior® set of knuckle shotguns, but the flat-pipe that Kick-Start, Inc. shipped with them was a Dennis Corso (faux-rivet) with a too shallow front hub, that Dennis replaced for me (i.e; That point alone, illustrates the value of dealing manufacturer-direct on something as quirky as the fitting of the four-piece exhaust system, and you have Q&A available by phone.)
I look forward to seeing the jobbered exhaust Dixie sells. Hoping that the flat-pipe has real rivets. Where have those Dixie® exhaust systems been hiding all these years? You can easily post a pic if you follow these instructions. 640 x 480 so we can see the rivets. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9123
The (65465-36) flat-pipes that http://nosparts.com sell, say U.S.A as manufacturer, but for 2 Jacksons and 2 Washingtons (chrome), I wonder if they're not D.Corso made :?: - which leads to more wonder of how Dixie's four-piece OHV exhaust could come from a different manufacturer other than Corso, but let's wait and see what Dixie sends your dealer.
Last edited by Plumber on Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:18 am

The 65505-41 "Y" Pipe

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This is the 65505-41 "Y" pipe with the re-positioned tab connected to the frame. The brake shaft lever clears the pipe. The rear header is not fully seated in the pipe's hub, but the header still seats deep enough that there won't be a leak. Front header is fully seated. Looks pretty good.
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Then there's a problem with the front muffler hanger. The "10-1/2" pipe has kick bent into it, to send the muffler upwards.
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The hanger needs to be twisted to match the direction of the kick.
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Tighten the pinch bolt and place it in the vise in the same position it attaches to the machine, so you don't forget which way to bend it.
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Twist it in increments until it behaves.
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Everything looks pretty good....but for the fact that the muffler is directed too high and eclipses the hanger hole in the frame.
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There is no way to bring the muffler down, except to try and use the straight (non-kicked) '58-64 "Y" pipe instead and cut it off to 10-1/2". This is the same pipe combo V-Twin sent me with the '48-57 pipe set in the first place. Dennis is sending me a '58-64 "Y" pipe and I'll see it I can make it work and post some pics of how it went.
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The straight "Y" in the '58-64 assembly will bring the muffler down, maybe. At least, it will allow the rear header to fully seat in the "Y", maybe.
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Kozy

Posts: 22

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:18 am

Location: Michigan

Post Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:45 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I've used one Corso exhaust system, on my '47 U, the only "adjustment" I had to make was forming some reliefs in the squish pipe. I used some dolly blocks made from bar stock and a BFH to dent the pipe so it would go around the rear footboard mount and stud. After that the exhaust fit up to all the brackets and muffler with out problem. This is with an OEM frame, the only other problem was the right lever on the crossover, which was AM, hitting the exhaust. Swapping the AM leverout for an OEM lever eliminated that. There's not enough offset bent into some of the after market levers apparently.
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panacea

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Location: Mpls. area

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

The problem with useing the 58-64 "Y" pipe cut off at 10 1/2" is not enough bend away from the frame to allow the front of the muffler to clear the lower frame rail, which means unless you leave it full lenght, it won't work.....Mike
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Plumber

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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:35 am

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

Sounds like you cured any fitment problems with the U series.
cut off at 10 1/2" is not enough bend away from the frame to allow the front of the muffler to clear the lower frame rail

That's what I remember from my first attempt, but I have to check it out again to be sure. There is the fact that the front muffler clamp/hanger has to be lined-up with that 3/8 fastener hole in the bottom of the seat post plate too. At least, in this situation I can fit the '58-64 "Y" and wonder about it and maybe send it back if it doesn't work, along with my welded flat-pipe and this modified "Y" to be stripped and re-chromed. I'll take some pics to illustrate how the '58-64 looks, when it gets here next week.
With both "Y" pipes on hand, I'm going to see which one of them I will heat to bend. Either the 10-1/2 "Y" pipe is going to have some kick removed or the '58-64 "Y" is going to be heated, bent and cut-off to whatever length will make it work. Somethings going to get heated and bent and I would predict that it's going to be the kicked "Y" pipe that gets the treatment. I have a sacrificial rear header Kick-Start, Inc. sent me. I'll put the kicked "Y" pipe in a soft-jawed vise (or better) and place the hub of the sacrificial header in the kicked tail piece and pull it downward, as I heat the base of the kicked pipe with a "rosebud" enough to bend it. That's the loose plan, we'll see what develops.
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Before the "Y" starts, I plan on heating the bottom and sides of the pipe first (heat rises), then the top of the pipe as I bend the kicked pipe downward. It's all "eyeball" bends though. I know a couple of degrees drop at the base of the "Y" is going to develop to an approx. 3/4"-1" drop at the rear muffler hanger. Trial and error.
With the kick reduced, I'm going to try and get a more even seat at the front of the "Y" spigot into the rear hub of the flat-pipe. You can see from the front mark the seat-line is angled up a little. It would be a bit of a "leaker" left like that.
The rear mark is where the front end of the muffler is suppose to be in order that the clamp/hanger hole will match the seat post plate's 3/8 hole.
I got hold of Dixie today and ordered their 4 piece exhaust

3-10-08 Good news then, bigfoot exist :!:
I talked to Dennis and he said the 10-1/2" "Y" pipe was die-produced and can not be adjusted at the factory for less kick. When asked if he thought the pipe might collapse if I heat and bent it, he said he's never tried it and he has no idea.
I'm assuming that my 1997 V-Twin frame is the reason for the exhaust fitment problem, and that the over-kick in the 10-1/2" "Y" is limited to my machine only.
Last edited by Plumber on Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ohio-rider

Posts: 230

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Location: Ohio

Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:46 am

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

Well, it took awhile, but I got hold of Dixie today and ordered their 4 piece exhaust for a 56 straight leg frame today. I've got to believe that it will go much easier for me then it has gone so far for you. If not I can always throw the straight pipes back on.

The young lady I spoke with, asked her boss who the manufacuter of the system was, but he didn't know and said he would try to find out for me. I'll let ya know what I find out. -Steve
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Plumber

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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:22 am

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

I think if I cut the pipe from the bottom (before the "Y"), about 3/4 of the way through with a grit-blade, it will leave a 0.060" kerf and I can bend the pipe down, as I hook the muffler up with the hanger at the correct height. I can keep filing a wider kerf as needed until I get tight contacts of the clam-shell seam created and then ask Stett to TiG weld it.
If I were to heat the pipe with a rosebud, it might collapse or immediately kink if I tried to bend it.
That '58-64 "Y" pipe will arrive by Friday. I'll fit it up and see if cutting, and bending it away from the frame rail and then TiG welding might work too.
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It's easier to make an equal cut-line mark if you hold the pipe vertical.
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I'm going to flip if and cut the pipe almost in two, before the "Y".
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:29 am

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

Stett suggested making a series of cuts rather than trying to widen the kerf on a single cut - too hard to fill a wide gap with a TiG bead.
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I made marks about an inch apart. You need to cut the pipe evenly to within an inch of completely through.
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A DuPont® grit-blade works great. Cuts straight. Use WD-40 on the blade.
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Actually this first cut position didn't help much as far as bending the pipe. The cuts that closed the most were two that were made further down the pipe.
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Wrap duct tape around the first and second cuts to support the pipe from collapsing.
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I sandpapered the kerfs clean. You can reach all the kerf windings with a round file.
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This is an early shot before I made all the cuts. I put one more cut about an inch away from end of the muffler. I'll post that pic later. You can see that some of the kick has been removed. I can now hang the muffler by the bottom-most hole in the hanger to the hanger hole in the frame.
I've got to run the pipe over to Stett's this morning to TiG it up. I'm going to see if I can send all of my pipes back to Dennis Corso for stripping and re-chroming. He may not strip parts. If not, I'll look for a local chrome shop.
See how the rear header isn't completely seated? With the extra cuts I made, the rear header seats completely now.
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You need to make cut #1, #2 and #3. Cut #4 didn't close up much, if any. I'll look again though before we weld it.
Tighten all the fasteners (Note: the front muffler clamp is fully tightened and still doesn't choke the muffler flange. Guess I need shim stock wrapped around the muffler?) Use a 2 x 4 to bend some sense into the assembly.
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Another fine modification from Stett @ the iron horse ranch. http://stettsironhorseranch.com/

That's it. If it TiGs up OK, then this solves the last problem in building a 1948-1957 Replica Panhead.

The only part(s) we do not have are the 3.5 gallon replica fuel tanks. :idea:
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:10 am

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

Well, it took awhile, but I got hold of Dixie today and ordered their 4 piece exhaust for a 56 straight leg frame today. I've got to believe that it will go much easier for me then it has gone so far for you. If not I can always throw the straight pipes back on.

The young lady I spoke with, asked her boss who the manufacuter of the system was, but he didn't know and said he would try to find out for me. I'll let ya know what I find out. -Steve

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How'd the Dixie pipes turn out? Was the flat pipe the same as a Corso? How about the "Y pipe, did it have the same kick in it? Any pics?
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PanPal

Posts: 13

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Post Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

Me thinks the terminals point to the back. Your pushrods covers may interfere.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: 59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

Thanks. Yes, v.reg. is flipped 180 degrees. I like the wire terminals fastened to the front of the terminals for access. This came off the '59. The pushrods have alot of clearance.
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On the "kicked' Y vs. "straight" Y choice:
It turns out, after some more phone calls today, that those "Dixie" style (flat) "Y" pipes are also available at Kick-Start (616) 245-8991. Some rigid frames are going to need to use the Corso® "kicked" version of the "Y" pipe, and some are going to need to use the "straight" version of the ('36-57) "Y" pipe. Which one is correct for you? That's a mystery choice.
I ordered a Dixie-style flat pipe from Kick-Start to make a pic comparison, by Wednesday if they sent it priority.
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