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59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

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panacea

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Location: Mpls. area

Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:44 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Plumber, I'm thinking the paughco three piece pipes are for 58 up. Looks like the "Y" pipe you have may allow more clearance for the muffler to miss the frame tubes. Thanks for the pix....Mike
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Plumber

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

http://www.paughco.com/2003_catalog/page251.htm
Find it in there and paste the url. Is that the one-piece flat and "Y" in the 712C group your talking about? If you have a rigid frame and fitting problems get the V-Twin ones for rigid and have no problem. I have a one-piece like the Paughco one, but it's used on a '58 swing arm.
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panacea

Posts: 121

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:54 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Yes, thats the set I have. The part description says it fits 48-57 ridjid and 58-65 swing arm frames, and they do fit, but not with the muffler in it's correct location up near the tranny. Mike
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Post a pic of it mike. Here's the length of the USA "Y" pipe: This is the V-Twin (30-0199) '36-57 Big Twin replica "Y" pipe (10-1/2" long).
Here's the beginnings of a custom bracket. It seems the OE brackets are 7/16 cold rolled, with one end turned down and threaded 5/16, and the other end flattened and drilled for 5/16. I think I'll start heat-bending a length of rod to match this copper tube bend, then thread the one end, and shape the rest of the rod bend by bend, with the rod securely fastened to the seat post yoke for a directional-fix assist.
Image
There's plenty (1/2" or more) of clearance between the vent line and the bracket. It looks like they make contact, but they don't.
Last edited by Plumber on Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Haynes

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:59 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

THe American Made Panhead pipes from V-Twin are made by Dennis Corso. It has been my experience that when i complained to him about a problem with one of his products he said "Nobody else has ever complained". Which is the same thing he told other's I know who complained about the same thing. I guess he is like Paughco when I complained that they were putting the rigid frame mounting tabs on the swing arm inner primary cover. They said "Why bother, they are buying them anyway."
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:21 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

THe American Made Panhead pipes from V-Twin are made by Dennis Corso. It has been my experience that when i complained to him about a problem with one of his products he said "Nobody else has ever complained".

Actually the USA riveted flat pipe and the "Y" pipe are perfect fits. The "Y" has a crimp-stop at the bottom, for the rear header pipe to seat into. The "Y" pipe has a directional kick in the tail piece. That t'wernt easy to fab. The only piece of the exhaust system I have that's squirrely, is the rear header, that's a tad too long, with those too deep, raspy, relief slots looks like pure "Grade C" ("Naw....we don't care about our end users...don't make it "correct" for a few bucks more... whaddaya nutz :?: ...make it for us as cheap as you possibly can") Taiwan..you would think, but they're not Taiwan, they're the same Made in U.S.A mfgr. with V-Twins name on the label, which is sad, or either a lie, because both front and rear headers have that raw-chromed edge cheap look to the slot finish, and the bell hubs are peaked at the slots where the "pincher machine" squeeze-cut the slots. They look like "Grade C" Taiwan, but they're USA.Image
Those "peaks" are what will gnaw into the cylinder head above the spigot.
ImageImage
Image
This is the V-Twin (30-0199) '36-57 Big Twin replica "Y" pipe (10-1/2" long), and the '36-64 (30-0203) Exhaust flat pipe w/ rivet (65465-36). The "Y" pipe was made in the U.S.A. The flat pipe is made in the U.S.A.
Image
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Front head goes on today, assembling the exhaust and a few things.....some days the only thing that makes sense.....is working on your motorcycle.
I called Kick-Start and ordered another rear header :idea: They carry three different mfgrs. of header pipes. One of them is nos Superior® (no extra charge for the shop patina). :wink:
I'm posting some side-by-side comparisons between what K.S. sends and this V-Twin production, just so we all know what's being sold. No problem with my V-Twin flat and "Y", but their rear header is lacking.
IMO, anytime you get in a parts pinch, don't "guess roulette"............call Kick-Start M/C Parts and get an edge over the competition. Time and money well spent. (616) 245-8991 M-F 10-5 (EST).
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Plumber

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:45 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Here's a swing-arm Paughco exhaust (27") and the rigid exhaust (19").
Image
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Plumber

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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

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Post Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:36 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

:arrow:
Last edited by Plumber on Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

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Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:52 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH FEATURES THE SWING-ARM FRONT HEADER. IT IS TOO SHORT:
I need to put a tighter bend in the front header, to meet the flat-piece and a tighter bend on the rear header. They're out of stock on this Eastwood bender. Any on know of a substitute for bending 1-3/4" O.D. pipe? I also have to add a little length to the front header. It's short of going intop the flat pipe by about an 1-1/2. This is going to be a bear to correct. I'm pretty sure it's the 1997 V-Twin frame that's making it a problem. I have to check that the front header isn't maybe for a swing arm frame, but I don't think there is a difference between rigid and swing front headers. V-Twin sells a set of 4-piece pipes for "48-57 (29-0173).
Looks like I might have to custom make headers if I'm going to use stock style exhaust.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?item ... pe=PRODUCT
Here's the V-Twin front header that is labeled to fit '48-65 over the top of a used one from a swing arm '58 that fit fine. You can see that the old pipe has more lift at the end. If it didn't have a reducing bushing welded into it for use on worn spigots, I'd fit it up to my motor to test it's fit into the flat pipe. It looks like with that extra kick it would line up with the flat pipe ok.
Image
Because here's the shiny V-Twin pipe and you can see that with the header correctly positioned on the front exhaust spigot, the angle of the pipe end is too low.
Image
It will be interesting to see if the rigid pipe set V-Twin's sending will have a different front header pipe shape. Synopsis so far? I think, at present, I have a bad front header and a swing arm rear header that I've been trying to fit on a rigid Pan.
With the flat-pipe correctly positioned (which would be loose and not bound on the bottom of the crankcase), the pipe tab and frame tab almost line up -enough that I can hog out the hole in the pipe tab to install a short 5/16 bolt.
Image
Last edited by Plumber on Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:40 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Chris Haynes

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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:46 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Plumber,
The 1948-1957 rear head pipes are bent differently than the 1958-1965 and they are NOT interchangeable.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:31 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Good to hear. There's still hope. I'm going to test out V-Twins dealer new Tech help and see it they'll do a bin check and measure the front header for length and confirm that I have swing-arm pipes. The rear header is listed separately as the same part though. I'll see what they say.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tech dept. was a "leave your phone number and a description of the problem" option.
I looked up my "USA MADE" header parts I bought separately in 2003. The (30-0174) front header I have is listed in the catalog as '48-65, but the label on the part says '58-65. The rear header I have (30-0173) says '48-65 on the label, but needs a tighter bend on it to meet up with the "Y" pipe correctly.
Then, there is a complete system for '48-57 (29-0173), but the headers are not sold separate. I ordered a '48-57 set of pipes from V-Twin, Kansas City. Shipping today. When they get here in (5) days, I'll post the results. It's a crap shoot with this early V-Twin frame though, or not.
I post some "where things don't fit" pics to show the glaring differences between swing and rigid pipes.
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Chris Haynes

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Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:09 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Why not order Superior pipes from Dixie?
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:51 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I have set of n.o.s Superior, 4-piece (w/ rivet flat piece), upswept, shotguns for a Knuckle. The flat piece looks like the V-Twin sold USA flat piece, except the chrome on the V-Twins are way better. The only shop I know that still sells n.o.s. Superior is Kick-Start M/C Parts. The most recent Superior® catalog I've received was all t-shirts, parking plaques and riding gear. I don't think Superior is in the parts business anymore. Someone told me not to mention Dixie's name anymore, since it's dealer only and only causes problems for Dixie when people try and call for parts.
If these new rigid frame pipes I ordered fit my V-Twin frame, and it turns out that I was trying to fit a swing-arm, 4-piece, set of pipes on the machine instead, I'll have a bunch of back-pedaling to do, on three different sites and that's never fun.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2621

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:50 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Dixie purchased the Superior exhaust company many, many years ago.
Anybody who wants a part from Dixie can order it through their local aftermarket shop. So there is no reason NOT to mention Dixie as a source. Their catalogue has lots of interesting things in it. Even Taiwan Tedd buys stuff from Dixie then resells it at much higher prices.
The V-Twin riveted "S" pipes are a complete fraud. If you look inside the pipe you will see that the bracket is welded on and the rivets, which are on the outside only, are simply for looks.
I was at Dixie just before the Wauseon meet and I stumbled on to a pile of NOS Gen U Wine H-D S pipes. Although Dixie has been hand picked over and over again you never know what you will find when you go there. It is a real adventure. It is about a 10 story building a full city block square. Floor after floor of stuff. Not just Harley but most anything you can think of. International parts, Fork lifts, books, household appliances. There have been fires here and there and clean up consisted of shoveling all the stuff into 4' X 6' wire mesh baskets. It is dark as they won't spend money for lights, hot and, dusty. The elevators work, sometimes. If any of you dealers ever plan to go there for a search bring good flashlights, lots of water, and clothes you don't mind getting very dirty. Plan to spend at least two days, or more.
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Pa

Site Admin

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Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:13 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I agree with Chris. I might add one more note to his though. Don't get locked in after closing like my good buddy did. He didn't realize the place was closing while he was in one of the upper floors. A female employee thought he was some kind of an intruder and called the law. Got it all straightened out but the situation was embarressing to both my buddy and the female employee, :lol: Pa
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2621

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Another thing to think about is access to the building for handicapped persons. THERE IS NO WHEELCHAIR ACCESS TO THE BUILDING. If you are in a chair be sure to bring enough friends to carry you up the flight of stairs into the building.
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Plumber

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:37 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Here's the USA flat pipe with the welded "rivets". I don't mind the phony rivets as long as the pipe assembly fits together.
Image
Those '48-57 exhaust are scheduled to arrive on 1-2-08. Will they fit? I'll post rigid and swing arm sets for comparison. I have a feeling that if V-Twin specifies '48-57 on a parts group and doesn't sell the rigid frame pipes separately, it figures that the pipes are going to actually going to fit. V-Twin likes to have you buy a complete set so you wind up with two or more flat and "Y" pipes. I could go into flat pipe business, since I have about three of them already.
The '48-57 pipes are scheduled to arrive 1-2-08, but they could be here today on 12-28-07.
-------------------
The '48-57 pipes (and the 2008 catalog) arrived and they'rre distinctly different from the '48-65 headers V-Twin sells. As soon as I fit them up, I'll post a pic.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:25 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

The (29-0173) '48-57 rigid pipes are a kit. Four pieces with one part number label and they pipes fit :!:
The front header is about an inch longer than the '58-up front header. The rear header has more "S" in it than the '48-65 rear headers sold separately, but the "kit" doesn't have that short "Y" pipe with the extra kick in the connect-to-muffler piece. It comes with the longer (swing-arm?) type "" piece. I'll post the pics tomorrow.
Synopsis: As sometimes happens with V-Twin parts, if you want exactly the parts you need for this rigid frame exhaust system, you must purchase the (29-0173) kit and you must also purchase a separate (10-1/2" short version) of the "Y" pipe. When I post the pics, I'll list exactly the part numbers you need to order for the correct collection of parts.
In the catalog, V-Twin has a note that says, "You may need to remove the motor mount bolts and tilt the motor to the left, in order to fit the pipes together and then fit onto the front head spigot". Luckily my heads are not torqued yet, and I can back the head bolts off for an inch of lift instead.
Image
This correct, short, (10-1/2") "Y" pipe is not included in the rigid frame (29-0173) '48-57 exhaust kit. A longer '58-64 style "Y" was included instead. That's not right, and if I ask V-Twin to let me return just the '58-64 "Y" in exchange for the correct 10-1/2" "Y", they will probably require me to send all the pipes back and re-issue me another kit. I'll ask them.
Image
The set in front is '48-57, the rear header has more "S" in it. The 10-1/2" "Y" pipe is correct, but the longer ('58-64) "Y" for swing arm is what shipped with (29-0173). I'll try and return the '58-64 "Y" for a 10-1/2" (which is chrome, (30-0199).
Here's the '48-57 pipes assembled. The only pipe that needs more bend is the front header. It does not match up with the hub of the flat-pipe. But, the oil filter fits just fine. 8)
Image
Since the front header is long enough, but not bent enough, we'll have to cut and weld sections of pipe to make the bend.
Image
The cut & weld will include adjusting the contact angle for the front head spigot so it's sits squarely.
Image
It's equally important the the brake arm has swing clearance, which this does.
Image
This flat-pipe seam relief is ground into OEM cases:
Image
But there isn't one in these STD cases. It may be necessary to grind some in once you know where, and if, the flat pipe seam makes contact.
Image
Last edited by Plumber on Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Plumber

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:33 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I plan on grinding the chrome off a section at the mid-radius-bend of the header and cutting a slice out of the side, with a plasma torch, like you would remove a bad section of banana or an orange slice, then bending the pipe until I have the correct alignment to the flat-pipe hub, then cutting a new replacement slice of pipe from a sacrificial header I have, and TiG welding that new section into the gaping hole in my usable header, then having the pipe stripped and re-chromed. Does that sound possible?
Note: With the spigot end of the header inserted into the hub of the flat pipe, and the hub of the header over the spigot of the head, it raises the front of the head about 1/4". There's enough length in the header, but not enough bend.
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panacea

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Location: Mpls. area

Post Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:12 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Kirk, have you tried pulling out on the rear end of the squish pipe, allowing the front pipe to swing up to the bottom of the case, then swing the squish pipe back in engageing the front pipe, all the while you must bite the lower lip. Hey, it works! Mike
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