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59 FL in Rigid V-Twin Frame, Exh., Volt. Reg. and Oil Filter

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Chris Haynes

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:42 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

H-D also mounted the small regulator on top of the outside end of the generator on some XL models. That bracket would be easy to make. Drill two holes in it and bolt it on the generator thru bolts
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Plumber

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:57 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

if you are planning on running a stock oil filter on that bike you may have some clearance issues with the reg mounted as shown.

Your right JDH, I was thinking swing-arm frame, not rigid frame. I need to think about it more. I want to keep the original oil filter. I don't want to mount the reg. in any other place. It all fits on the swing-arm frame. I need to look t it closer. Thanks.
I have horn plans for that (left side) cavity under the Hydra-Glide cover. A V-Twin, 6V horn will fit in there, if I make a bracket that attaches to the left riser nut.
I can "tune" the V-Twin horn with a hammer, so that it sounds like a Mexicali bound Dino Freightliner (the kind with railway rails welded-up as a front-bumper cattle guard) and sounds like....."BLA-DA-DA-DA-da-da" ...when the driver let's off the pedal - which will scare the living daylights out of driving-space transgressors.
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john HD

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:44 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

when i get some time i plan on trying to mount mine as chris suggests, i do know mounting on the frame above the crash bar does not work when the forks fully compress.

the resulting dents in my front fender are a reminder that maybe my front brake really does work after i put the correct springs in it!

live and learned a bunch on that one!

john
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panacea

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:29 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

John, what springs are do you mean? the two that hold the shoes together? Mike
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john HD

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

yes i do.

i had a set of springs that were incorrect and installed wrong.

once i corrected the parts and centered the shoes it has worked well ever since.

john
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Plumber

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:02 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

I looked at '57 with the forward and low positioned oil filter. Then I looked at a '58 with the high loop oil filter line. Maybe I can use the '58-64 oil filter lines and mount the oil filter on my rigid frame with '58-84 oil filter bracket and filter lines. I can mock it up and see if it fits tomorrow.
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hplhd

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:46 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

[url=
i'm sorry. i tried to post a pic of my regulator next to my filter with the bracket plumber said would not fit. but it is in a swingarm(64) i will try again. the wrong pic keeps posting.
but i also have that same bracket on my rigid frame pan.
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Plumber

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:16 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

hp - keep trying to post a pic. It doesn't matter if you have to edit this post 45 times. Just keep hitting buttons till you get it the way you want it.
Go here. Print the explanation out and read it while you're over at the "Shack".
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9123
a pic of my regulator next to my filter with the bracket plumber said would not fit.

My situation is that I want to keep the external oil filter, but I want to put a regulator in a frame that was designed for a relay. Looking at Palmer's pic's of all the year models, in his Restoration Guide, It looks like Harley and Davidson being thrifty Scotts, used the same frame and axed the rear of the rigid and added a swing arm. Maybe they had the same problem with fitting the oil filter over the swing arm's voltage regulator, and used a rear sweep oil filter line. So, my wonderment is, will the swing-filter set up work on my rigid frame with my added volt. reg. :?:
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The oil tank position is in the same spot on both the rigid and swing-arm frame. Look at the back of the rigid frame tail tubes. They follow the line of the oil tank. There's the empty spot for the future voltage regulator above the oil pump.
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Look at the back of the oil tank with a swing-arm. The angle of the tank is the same. They only changed the oil lines and bracket. I see locomotive, pipe fitting and plumbing influences in there.
Factory pic's are from: http://www.amazon.com/Restore-Harley-Da ... gy_b_img_b
So in whole or part, weren't the '58- up oil filter bracket and oil lines created just because the voltage regulator moved into that empty spot? If so, then why can't I just use the '58-up lines and bracket. The bracket frame hole in the seat post casting's are in the same place. Please tell me it will work......with a new offset pump to filter line that wraps behind the rear exhaust.
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And yea, I'm going to elongate those holes in the OE style chrome reg. bracket, if I have to, and try to move the bracket back in towards the motor a 1/4", so I can use it maybe. I think what HP is saying is that he has one of the chrome reg. mounts and his works without interfering with the crankcase vent line.

And while on the subject.....ask Santa Claus for a Nikon CoolPix 4300, or better. We can expand the depth of this site cubically if about 10 of you had pics to back up what your trying to explain.
The reason I like Nikon is that they have a 24hr. free forever tech help line.
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Plumber

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:55 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

This is a '58-64 filter-to tank oil line and a rigid frame filter mount bracket. The '58-up bracket is pointed totally wrong. The rigid bracket comes closest to being right, but obviously it's not. The pump to filter line is the one for the swing arm. Comes close, but a new line needs to be made up.
Image
So, with the rigid filter bracket removed and the filter taped to the pump line, this will be the position of the filter. I need to make a custom bent filter bracket and a new pump to filter line. Looks so at this stage, unless I'm overlooking something. You can see the pump line sticking up above the top of the filter cap in the pic above. A new line gets bent into shape that goes behind, and wraps around, the back of the rear exhaust header, like it does on the swing arm.
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Here's the side view with the filter taped where is should be positioned. Looks plumb.
Image
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john HD

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:16 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

plumber

looks like you are getting closer, you may want to mock up the head and the rear pipe. that is where you might find some interferance. the cup of the filter may hit the rear pipe.

john
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Chris Haynes

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:38 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Another thing a lot of people don't think about is the exhaust pipe. The rigid pipes are actually bent differently than the swing arm pipes. Notice that the swing arm pipes carry a -58 part number.
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Plumber

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Post Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:18 am

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

the cup of the filter may hit the rear pipe.

The rigid pipes are actually bent differently than the swing arm pipes. Notice that the swing arm pipes carry a -58 part number

Yea, I know it, but I didn't want to think about it. All right, I'll set the rear head on an run-up a couple head bolts and install the.......aw-w-w man :!: .......I don't have rear the rigid headers yet, I only have STD flange headers.
This is when you need the availability of Kick-Start Motorcycle Parts...........the "chuckwagon" of Flathead and OHV :!: Would be Saturday though.....closed. I'll try and hold up an STD rear header and see if there's any noticeable obstruction and snap a pic.
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I see in the V-Twin catalog that they list one rear header (65493-48) [VT 30-0173] for '48-65.
Did they re-bend the rear header for a rigid to be the same shape as '58-65 swing, so they wouldn't have to carry two different types of rear header pipes :?:
Here's the '48-57 (left) and the '58-65 (right). Looks like the '58 has a tighter bend. Now, I'll go out and see what my '48-65 V-Twin rear header looks like in comparison. I remember that I do have a set of V-Twin spigot '48-65 headers. Maybe the rear header is now a universal fit for '48-65.
ImageImage

Evel Knievel - full throttle

Here's the one type, '48-65 Paughco has listed: 712C. I didn't find front and rear headers only or separate crossover.
http://www.paughco.com/2003_catalog/page251.htm
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panacea

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Location: Mpls. area

Post Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:06 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

If you use the paughco 712C expect to have a muffler clearance problem where it crosses in front of the tail section,which makes it nessisary to locate the front of the muffler rearward of the frame member. (Muffler should be up to the back of the tranny) Pics I have studdied show the "Y" pipe on the outside of the kicker return spring, which pulls the muffler out past the tail section, not possible with the 712C system. Mike
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Plumber

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Post Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:19 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Thanks for the fit tips. Always helpful to know where to look elsewhere. Sometimes mis-fit is all that's out there. I always say, when in parts quality doubt...call Kick-Start (616) 245-8991 (M-F, 10-5 EST), and get fit right the first time.
I'll be one happy wheeler if I can make the oil filter fit on a rigid frame and look like it belongs there. IMO, the best of both eras : Rigid frame with an oil filter (where it should be), and a voltage regulator (where it looks right), with the reliable 2-brush generator.
I'm going to use this new-stock V-Twin '48-65 rear header (VT 30-0173) and mock it up with a new-stock V-Twin supplied exhaust and the rear head.
Then, using 3/8 copper bend a template pump-to-filter line, and a test bracket made up out of 7/16 copper tube, with a 5/16" bolt jammed in the hollow copper tube, to nut the "bracket" to the top (yoke) hole, and flatten the other end of the tube on an anvil, and drill a 5/16 hole for the top of the filter stud nut, and then bend a bracket that will fit the custom, and longer length, filter-to-tank oil line alignment, rear exhaust header allowing.
If you "pause" this, Greybeard52 supplied, video of a 1955 OHV on the section that shows the oil filter, I'd say what I'm attempting has already been tried by a jillion other people already, but I have to check it out for myself. Putting the '58-up plumbing on my '55-57 is going to create filter cannister/header problems probably. I'll post a pic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfFyD_jG9po
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The interior of the V-Twin headers need to have the rough edges of the slot Dremeled away or they'll scar the exh. spigot.
The first ones I got from V-Twin didn't have slots. I sent them back, and they sent these. The slots are too deep. I needed to grind the uneven top off the header or they would have gnawed into the head over time. Now I have to grind some of the top off, so the hub will fit further up towards the head and eliminate a small opening, the too long slot leaves, below the end of the spigot. Be aware if you get any like these, they'll need work.
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This would be the mounted position. The filter to pump line will go behind the exhaust and compound bend over to the pump. Making up the line with 3/8 soft copper will be fairly straightforward. Then I can bend cad-plated brake line (NAPA has it) from the model.
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The rigid filter will have a path and pump line like this one on a swing arm, with an (early) S&S pump.
Image
This is the V-Twin (30-0199) '36-57 Big Twin replica "Y" pipe (10-1/2" long), and the '36-64 (30-0203) Exhaust flat pipe w/ rivet (65465-36). The "Y" pipe was made in the U.S.A. The flat pipe is made in the U.S.A. The parts were label dated 3/04/03 ans 9/09/03 respectively. The parts are getting better.
Last edited by Plumber on Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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47knuck

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Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

Post Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:42 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Plumber: Sorry about the delay in reply. Other stuff has happened and time to play onna computer is low priority. Any way.... about the shift drum conversation we have had for about 2 years now. The shift patteren I was talking about has to do with foot shift only. That was not so bad. With the "Jockey" shift you are talking about either you use the FX drum or you add a mount and a link arm to get the shift pattern you want. See we are still talking the same thing. No great controversy about this stuff. Look at the bike that Jesse James put up for his ride with Chris Rock and you will see an example of the shifter(jockey) with a mount and link arm. Most of the older guys I know just mounted the jockey arm on the shift drum and went with the pattern as it was. You had the good sense to use the other shift drum to get the pattern you wanted. Cool.
Steve H
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Plumber

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Post Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:53 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

either you use the FX drum or you add a mount and a link arm to get the shift pattern you want.

No, I don't know anything about a bracket. I only know the (34006-74) FX shifter cam for forward, back, back, etc. or the (34019-73) shifter cam for back, forward, forward, etc.
There is no linkage in my world, just mind, foot, rocker clutch, jockey lever and left arm. No foot shift, no tank shift. Small world, but I like it. :wink: What ever blows your hair back. Linkage or not, everybody likes something different. Once you change one (1) shifting part on a Big Twin, you've change the "ride" completely.
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Sorry, to get "froggie" and jump at you. I'm on edge man.....I'm waiting for this header/exhaust- V. reg - '58 oil filter mount jazz to bite me. Something's spooky about it. First off, is the fact that a million people have been wrenching on rigid and swing for 49 years. So, for 49 years, since 1958, nobody has tried to put the V.reg and external oil filter in the same place a '58 and later filter is :?:
Anyway, 1,616 people have shelled out for Vol. 1 and I think I owe it to them to continue on past both volumes.
I'll get the flat pipe installed and come back with more pics.
If you look at the pic where I'm holding the filter...there's enough room to bend a pump to filter line. This is a job for the Ridgid® model 406, 3/8 tubing bender.
Last edited by Plumber on Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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47knuck

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Post Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:56 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Nothing wrong with the fit of a small world and a small mind :) Enjoy the Holidays and Merry Christmas to all.
Steve H
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Plumber

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Post Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:37 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Here's some areas that need relieving, to keep the four exhaust pieces adjustable: The deep slotted headers will leave this small hole. That's not good. The header already tries to push the head up, so I'm going to grind the top off of the bell some, which will allow the bottom of the slot to move up and cover the hole, and allow the head to drop down and seat. There is no head gasket on there, so adding one will create even more needed wiggle room.
Image
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The foot board lug needs a tapered bevel (indicated by yellow) ground away so the flat piece will be free to move around when needed.
ImageImage

A rigid frame, with voltage regulator and oil filter. One way to go, with a '58-up motor, if you don't want the maintenance of a 32E and relay..
You can use a '48-57 wiring harness, but you need to pull the Field, Armature & Battery wires through the middle of the loom (the wires for the voltage reg.) when it travels past the rear cylinder, on its way to branch off to the timer.
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panacea

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Location: Mpls. area

Post Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:20 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

Plumber, thanks for the pix,As you know, I'm experiencing some exhaust clearance problems with the muffler not clearing the tail section of the frame when pulled forward to the oem location. How much space do you have between the frame and the "Y" pipe? I may have gotten a set of 58-65 pipes. Mike
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Plumber

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Post Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:15 pm

Re: 59 FL in 55-57 V-Twin Frame

How much space do you have between the frame and the "Y" pipe?

Between the frame rail and the middle of the "Y" pipe? You can see from the (right) pix of the tail of the "Y" piece. It's pretty close to the frame rail there. I'll look for you, but I'm not sure exactly the spot your looking at.
I still need to install the front header and front head and the muffler tomorrow. If your need new parts, these V-Twin USA parts fit together like they should. I think I can make the riveted bracket even fit to the frame bracket. There's a 1/4" screw sticking in there now. Takes a 5/16, but I need to work some wiggle room into these parts first.
Last edited by Plumber on Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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