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UL Bottom End, Panhead Top End

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Dukey

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:50 am

Post Tue May 08, 2007 8:03 am

UL Bottom End, Panhead Top End

I had originally thought of putting this '37 UL motor together as a Flathead, but as I started searching for missing parts, iron heads, connecting rods, & flywheels I kept looking at posts about the Flathead top ends lasting only 10,000 miles. I looked at a Panead cylinder that I had sitting on the workbench...It drops right on the UL cases! I have a set of Panheads that are drilled for outside oilers sitting in a box. If I went in this direction, I could use standard overhead HD connecting rods and early overhead flywheels that I also have. It looks like I could get a line connectd to the sending unit hole for the oil pump and use that to feed the heads.
I was thinking that I could modify the lifter blocks like a 45 Magnum and use Sportster camshafts.

Does anyone see any drawbacks to this setup?
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panic

Post Tue May 08, 2007 4:18 pm

Yes.

Right on this page.
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Dukey

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:50 am

Post Wed May 09, 2007 4:24 am

Clarify your response. All I see is a link to your business website.
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MarkBranst

Posts: 341

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Thu May 10, 2007 3:02 pm

Dukey,

I'm pretty sure Panic's reference was to YOUR original message ... and frankly, for Panic, that was a very polite response.

MarkB
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Limey_Dave

Posts: 202

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:08 pm

Location: Middle England UK

Post Fri May 11, 2007 4:10 am

MarkBranst wrote:Dukey,

I'm pretty sure Panic's reference was to YOUR original message ... and frankly, for Panic, that was a very polite response.

MarkB
:shock: :lol:
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47knuck

Posts: 530

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

Post Wed May 30, 2007 3:05 pm

I think you need to worry about a bunch of things. What is the cam lift with flat head cams and Pan rocker ratios? 1.5 to one so the cams need to be reground. The cases. Flat head makes about 25 to 30 HP put a Pan top on and get around 50 HP. UL cases are thin as is. Pushrod length will need to be addressed. As well as some way to seal the tubes at the lifter block. I am certain there will be other issues as well. But..after all that we have a local in Ut that put a Knuck top onna flatty and it looks cool. I have never heard it run but those that I trust say it runs fine. I can't imagine what he did to get oil out of the heads with that Knuck top. If you want to bad enough and are willing to spend the time and money you can get it done. The real question is.. is it worth the effort? Only you can make that choice.
Steve H
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Dukey

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:50 am

Post Wed May 30, 2007 5:40 pm

Thanks for the knowledgable response. Your probably right, it might not be worth the effort.

I have Randy Smith's original article on how he built the original 45 Magnum and the follow up copyrighted article on the 45 Magnum that Williams Motors built.
Last edited by Dukey on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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panic

Post Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:53 am

Gee, I'd like to help you with some of the complete nonsense you posted (like "...use Sportster camshafts") - but you're just too cool.
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47knuck

Posts: 530

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Ogden, Utah, USA

Post Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:18 am

Panic: Are the cam "centers" on a Sporty the same as a big twin Flatty? If so that might be the longest bit of engineering to hold over. If not then a set of sporty cams would be a pain in the a** at the very least. How would the oil returns in the Pan cyl get used? They would have to be hard lined back to the case. Lots of things to worry about. :)
Steve H
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Dukey

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:50 am

Post Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:06 am

Just so it doesn't dissapear

Panic said:

Gee, I'd like to help you with some of the complete nonsense you posted ( like ..."use Sportster camshafts") -but you're just too cool.
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Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1541

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Dukey, the cams for BTSV and Sporty/45's are not interchangeable. "Bigger" gears on the BTSV.
Also, you'd have to do something about the return oil from the heads, the cyl base of the flathead wouldn't match the Pan cyls. might have to add some material to the cases to give a good match there. The knuck conversion is nicer in that respect in that knuck and Flatty cylinders have almost the same footprint. But hey, it's your project, do what suits you.
Dr Dick
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Dukey

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:50 am

Post Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:47 am

Thanks for your reply on the camshafts.

Since my first post I've talked to people that have done Shovelhead/UL conversions. My Panhead could be very similar.

I've enjoyed your posts on your piston oilers and oil pump conversion.

You mentioned in one of your other posts that you live off grid. I too lived off grid in New England years ago. I've since moved. Last year I sold my last wind generator, a Wincharger 1000 watt 32 volt, to Terry Bryant from up your way.
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Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1541

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:23 pm

Dukey, I hope you moved where there's a little more sunshine!! I may go grid yet, the lines have been in front of the house for years, but Ya know, I'm just the type that likes to thumb my nose at 'em. :lol: But, now New York will pay standard rates for my solar and wind electricity, new legislation. So, when the batteries finally die, I'll probably hook up.
The oil pump conversion is a work in progress, but there has been good progress of late. The problems have been high oil consumption and VERY leaky tappet covers. I went to 3 piece rings, and closed off the "trench" in the tappet blocks that deliver oil to the valve spring area. Oil out the tail pipe has decreased and leakage has diminished. The oil had been coming past the intake guides and into the intake mixture. The bonus seems to be that the Oil tank is getting very hot, like a ironhead sporty. So, I must be removing some heat with the oil now, which was the aim. An oil cooler is next. As a side note, there has not been any problem with excess oil coming from the breather, and the motor exhibits no symptoms of excess crankcase pressure. Only a few hundred miles on this latest iteration, so, whether longevity has improved remains to be seen. But, overall I'm happy with progress so far. It takes awhile to relearn throttle control, I.E., no more rolling off the throttle in the middle of climbing long hills to "lube" the motor. 8)
Dr Dick
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Dukey

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:50 am

Post Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:58 pm

I'd like to hear the final results of your motor when you get some miles on it. If you do solve the short lifespan problem of flatheads with your conversion, I may go that direction instead.

Yes, I moved to FL but there is too much sunshine, too high a taxes, too many connections to utlities, to many officials, and too many bugs. The only plus is that they do have a solar credit for stuff that you buy.

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