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The Wishbone 45"/4sp thread

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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 am

The Wishbone 45"/4sp thread

First I want to say its awsome to know there are so many people sharing information online. This is my first post here and I could already make a list of people I would like to thank for sharing things they know.
I have visited and became a member on a couple of other forums, so some of you will know about my project. I am gathering information and learning all I can about something I have let set for far too long. I will try to keep my thread here on subject and not focus on the 'restoration' aspect, but more of a preservation for now.

I am pretty much as dumb as they come here. I have very limited time turning wrenches on a Harley. Rebuilding the carb on a 92 FXDC, the linkert on this bike, and replacing fork seals on my buds sporty is about as far as I have went.
Thats about to change. I have some reading material on order- Palmers book, shop books, ect...
I do have some background with tools and the internal combustion engine- mostly from being an auto tech (mostly GM stuff).

So here is my morph, as I purchased it on that day.
Image

There are some cool things going on here- some of them I knew about when I bought it, some I have just learned about.
I have tons of pictures in my photobucket account. Feel free to have a peek.
http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/HD%20collection/

At this point the bike does not run. I do not have spark. The carb needs cleaned + gaskets ect. I am not sure of the compression.
I have heard it run- that was 1999. It turns over and has some 'whoof' when the plugs are out. The air pressure is enough to pass by my thumb.
So Cotten has stated I need to clean / inspect the ignition- I could use some pointers. (I printed the info from the BOS web page)
The carb will be pretty straight forward.
Aside from possible low compression I should be able to get some noise out of the pipes once the carb and ignition are in known working order.
I am wondering if I should just go through the engine and trans before I try to fire it up. It would re-assure me of the internals at a minimum.
So, this is what brings me to the FLATHEADPOWER forum.

Glove
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milwaukee belle

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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:01 am

Location: South Provence of FRANCE

Post Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:35 pm

Hi Glove !
i am Fran-6 . i have read your topic on an other forum .
glad to see you are here too !
i keep'on thinking the same way as i told you before : keep this chopper running just like it is now .
this is true : a Pan , Big-Flat or Knuck motor will be really cool in your frame ( depending of what type of motor this big-twin frame is for )
but if you choose this option : your scoot will definitively LOOSE its personality .
i sincerely think your scoot is interressant COZ it don't :shock: have such a big-twin motor .
well ....
welcome to the team !
Fran-6
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:09 pm

Fran to be honest I have mixed feelings.
50% of me says its cool as is (+ the loot for a bigger engine isnt in budget)
50% of me doesnt like to see the missing engine-to-frame bolts (and I dont want to drill the frame).
Maybe I need a closer look- but I dont think the engine is very stable in the frame. I have lots of ideas spinning in my head- hot rod solo bike or a gear bangin servi.... something more proper for the engine.
The truth is I am going to be keeping this as is for now. I keep thinking the previous owner was trying to make a racer replica and not just a 'chopper' or a 'bobber'. I really think there was a plan behind the machine rather than just collecting pieces.
I understand the nostalga and I do respect that aspect. So untill I can afford an early model pan engine I get to putt around on this thing in all its glory.
I need to get it runnin first :oops:
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Pa

Site Admin

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Location: Ohio USA

Post Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:19 pm

Welcome Glove. Yeah man !! Definately put spark and fuel to her and see what she sounds like. Pa
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sleeper

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Post Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:54 pm

I remember this picture from long ago. There was much interest in, how the 45" was connected to the 4 speed trans. Couldn't tell as it had a tin primary cover on it..

Have you pulled the outer primary cover off to see, some pics of this area would be very interesting !!

Good Luck, & Welcome... :!:
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milwaukee belle

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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:01 am

Location: South Provence of FRANCE

Post Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:32 am

...this could be a solution for your motor mounting problem....
( half-an-hour-work....and you are quiet ! )
Fran-6
Image
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:02 am

BillyW here is the best I can show ya untill I have the sprocket off and in my hand.
Image

Image

Fran-6, I think that piece will fix the problem!

When I pulled the cap from the wico I noticed there is an OEM (Wico) rotor and points sets. The rotor looks new, the points are questionable.
I found one place for OE parts- anyone know of more?
I could also use some pointers for going through the ignition- cleaning and testing to make sure it will fire. Are there any checks I can make for continuity or something?
The lobe (s) on this thing makes it a little confusing to set the points gap. It seems like the spring isnt letting the gap close at all.
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steph

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Location: belgium

Post Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:21 am

Looking at the sprocket ...this bike hasn't run a lot!
Iff you want to take it on the street you'll need to invest in a generator to get some lights...or make short runs on the battery.
Good solution from Fran6!!
Stéph
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milwaukee belle

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Posts: 923

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:01 am

Location: South Provence of FRANCE

Post Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:19 pm

:shock: yes : all looks new inside !!!!

about the idéa : i've posted it just for posting ....something .
but i am ready to guess as it is now ( wth only 3 motor mounts + upper mount ) it will work fine ...
guys : this is not a 2 liters stroker .... it's just a 45' ... :wink:
Fran-6
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:17 am

Steph, yea- electricity is nice. I am waiting on my reading material the I will be able to educate myself about generators.
on that note... things needed/wanted-
(Fran this is about as much as I wanted to do unless I find a panhead engine :wink: )
Foot shift clutch (bigtwin style)
floorboards
front crash bar- maybe a rear (I have some cool old saddlebags I want to put on here- not sure how that will work out yet.
I think I should have a shain gard, not surec
I like the bars- probably keep those as is unless I find some real HD ones like em.
Tanks will need to be replaced or I need to put much love and time in them to get a tank shifter and emblems back on.
A seat!- I guess I need the pogo stick and the "T" bracket...not sure if my seat will mount (I know you can make anything work, but I am wanting to stay with factory parts.

Thats just off the top of my head and things I want to address. I know the throttle, brake and clutch cables will all need attention.
All in due time...

If anyone has some of the stuff I could use and would like to help me out instead of seeing what ebay can bring ya, feel free to let me know (here or PM, or mail)

Glove
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Scott

Posts: 113

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:01 am

Post Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:31 pm

Do you know if the Wico was sourced from a racebike or if it's a converted tractor mag? Look at the serial tag or the points cam. A converted industrial/agricultural mag with its original shaft will have four lobes (it looks square), while the WR/KR (XLR?) item will have two lobes. The XV series Wicos, whether off a Ford tractor or Harley WR, share a lot of parts. The first person I'd look to for parts is Buck at http://www.goblinmillworx.com/index.php - just because he's the nicest & most helpful guy you'll meet. If you can't get hold of Buck, any place dealing in vintage tractor stuff should have what you need. I'm curious to know about the mag because I've built a tractor Wico to work on my 45. I can't report on my success (or lack of) because I don't yet have an otherwise running 45 to put it on.

When I pulled the cap from the wico I noticed there is an OEM (Wico) rotor and points sets. The rotor looks new, the points are questionable.
I found one place for OE parts- anyone know of more?
I could also use some pointers for going through the ignition- cleaning and testing to make sure it will fire. Are there any checks I can make for continuity or something?
The lobe (s) on this thing makes it a little confusing to set the points gap. It seems like the spring isnt letting the gap close at all.
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:35 am

Scott, the ID plate is MIA. I cant really describe the shape- I thought it looked like one large lobe and possibly a smaller one (or the ramp changes for the one lobe makes it look wierd)-- I dunno.


There is some info on
http://www.beautyofspeed.com/workshop/magnetos.htm

Seems there are three different types(I assume all three were usable for our apps?)
Type 1 has three holes
Type 2 has a slot
Type 3 has a slot with one hole
mine is the 3 hole version
Image

The pictures I have of the race bikes with these installed do not show the angle to see what types were used on those.
I wil be happy to get more pics- I would like to know as well.
Glove
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Scott

Posts: 113

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:01 am

Post Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:02 pm

Thanks for the pic. I'm not sure what you mean about the three types. Are you talking about caps? I understand the original Harley-specific caps with two towers opposite each other are not easy to come by. I used a common four cylinder cap and modified it:

Image

Check the upper shaft on your mag if you get it apart. Count the pieces of aluminum that cover the magnet rotor. Four = four cylinder mag. Two = two cylinder mag.

The Beauty of Speed site has been a fantastic source of info to build my fake mag. I see people paying crazy prices for Harley-specific Wico XV mags on eBay, while the four cylinder Wico XV mags (used on Ford 9N tractors, Caterpillar pony engines, LeRoi stationary engines, among others) sell for a fraction of that. I originally asked because I'm curious to see if someone other than me would ever go through all the trouble of converting one mag to fit another application.

glove wrote:Scott, the ID plate is MIA. I cant really describe the shape- I thought it looked like one large lobe and possibly a smaller one (or the ramp changes for the one lobe makes it look wierd)-- I dunno.

Seems there are three different types(I assume all three were usable for our apps?)
Type 1 has three holes
Type 2 has a slot
Type 3 has a slot with one hole
mine is the 3 hole version

The pictures I have of the race bikes with these installed do not show the angle to see what types were used on those.
I wil be happy to get more pics- I would like to know as well.
Glove
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:20 pm

If you look at the base of the aluminum housing you will see the three different ones (according to the pics on BOS)-I think the holes and slots are for the bolt/screw to hold it tight.

http://www.beautyofspeed.com/gallery/wico/wico_types_01.htm
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:05 pm

inside the Wico

Just tossing a couple pictures of the inside, under the cap...

Looking for lobes with some better understanding- I think this is the two lobe shaft.

Image

Image

Image
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Beachdog

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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 12:01 am

Location: CA USA

Post Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:12 am

I'm not a magneto expert. I'm sure there are guys here with lots more knowledge than me. The lobes in your picture do not look correct to me. One should be fat and one should be narrow, roughly across from each other. Like the lobes on a H-D circut breaker that activate the points in a battery/coil ignition. Pulled a couple of WICO caps to verify my memory. It could be the angle of your pics tho so check it out.
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milwaukee belle

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Posts: 923

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:01 am

Location: South Provence of FRANCE

Post Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:35 am

:shock:Me too : i'm not a Wico-Mag-Expert : but i think the same as Beachdog ....
the lobes looks strange for me . logically : such a magneto should show a "45 Degrees" angled lobes ( for a 45 Degrees angled twin )...and what i see on your pics really looks like a "FLAT-TWIN Motor Magneto "
i already saw one of these even here in France , in swapmeets . but never wanted to buy one .
i know lot of guys , all happy to have bought the same magneto ( wico or even fairbanks-morse ) for a cool price , but very desappointed some times later : when they understood they cannot fire a harley motos ....

Uncle Eric , at Beautyof Speed.com , sure will have your answer !

this is maybe the story of your scoot .
the "WHY" you found it this way , layed in a corner ....who knows .

Fran-6
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:56 pm

...but this bike has ran before. I heard it, I seen it.
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steph

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Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:01 am

Location: belgium

Post Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:24 am

Glove I think Beachdog nailed it, the pic off your magneto lobes show 180°...I sure believe you heard it run...but how did it run...we have a saying : even a crippled will run!
That's what's marvelous with Harley...they will run anyhow!
But that doesn't say they can't be improved to run as they should.
I'm sure that with some imagination a good machinist can grind the lobes to suit the Harley needs!
Stéph
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:58 am

Hmmm, now you guys may have found my problem.

To me- there appears to be two lobes and I would say they are 180 apart from ech other. I would also say one is larger than the other.

I will try to get some better pictures but it seems these are not showing thing very clear.

If this is the wrong shaft or mag- would that explain why ol'Jack kicked and kicked and kicked before she would fire?
-when it did fire up, it sounded beautiful!

Its supposed to be warm today- I was going to see if I can find any # on the bottom of the cases. I am stumped w/ the wico. Probably need to look for a known good distributor and see if I can get spark from that while I investigate the wico a little better.
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