Board index Flathead Power-Technical Questions, Answers, and Suggestions Shovels Trouble with fresh top end

Trouble with fresh top end

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

Post Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:38 pm

Posts: 197
Location: Bucktown, PA
Anybody had any trouble with Hastings rings?
I've got a shovel with a fresh top that smokes and fould plugs.
Could the rings not be breaking in?

Post Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:03 pm

Posts: 3129
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Modern rings do not "break in"..

If there is any apparent wear, they are considered worn out.

...Cotten

Post Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:58 pm

Posts: 2687
Location: Los Angeles, CA
How are your valve guides and seals?

Post Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:56 am

Posts: 640
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Headbolts torqued properly and retorqued after a good warm up?

Post Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:54 am

Posts: 903
Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

If new valve guides were installed, did they fit tightly in the bore. i had a shovel in last year that the guy just put the same OD guide in that he'd removed. When the motor got hot the guide would move with the val and was passing all kinds of oil.
My best guess would be to go with anklyde's suggestion. If the heads and cylinders were not retorqued after a good heat/cool cycle, you've probably blown a head gasket and the piston is sucking in oil from the return. This would be the easiest thing to check and the most obvious.
Other possiblilities are a crack in the jug, or a crack in the head.
Curt!

Post Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:53 pm

Posts: 197
Location: Bucktown, PA
Thanks, fellas.
It's all guess work until I can get the guy to bring it to me and get it up on the lift.
I already had this one back apart once after about 75 miles because a spiral wristpin clip crumbled.
That did, though, give me a chance to check the valve seating and see if there was any leakage around the valves or guides, and everything seemed OK.
This has been the job from hell.
I never had one bounce twice!

Post Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 pm

Posts: 3129
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Charlie!

I, too, have had a spiral lock shuck part of itself on a customer's Chubble, for no apparent reason. (Fresh lower end, also).

Cost me lots of warranty work and embarrassment.

The weakest part of any motor is the tiniest part, and spiral locks aren't all they are hyped to be!

If the oil is not seeping past the headgasket at the drain hole, then the next probability would be a scored bore in the head for a guide.

....Cotten

Post Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:42 am

Posts: 2399
Location: atascadero cal usa
I HAD A FRIEND THAT BUILD HIS OWN MOTOR IT SMOKED LIKE CRAZY
I KEPT TELLING HIM FOR MONTHS HE HAD THE BREATHER VALVE NOT TIMED CORRECTLY WAS MY GUESS
HE BROUGHT IT TO ME AFTER SCREWING WITH EVERYTHING ELSE
IT TURNS OUT THE MARKS WERE ALL LINED UP BUT AT SOME POINT SOMEONE HAD MODIFIED THE BREATHER HOLE IN THE CASE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION
I MOVED IT ONE TOOTH REMARKED THE BREATHER AND IT FIXED THE PROBLEM

Post Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:00 am

Posts: 197
Location: Bucktown, PA
100incscoot wrote:
I HAD A FRIEND THAT BUILD HIS OWN MOTOR IT SMOKED LIKE CRAZY
I KEPT TELLING HIM FOR MONTHS HE HAD THE BREATHER VALVE NOT TIMED CORRECTLY WAS MY GUESS
HE BROUGHT IT TO ME AFTER SCREWING WITH EVERYTHING ELSE
IT TURNS OUT THE MARKS WERE ALL LINED UP BUT AT SOME POINT SOMEONE HAD MODIFIED THE BREATHER HOLE IN THE CASE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION
I MOVED IT ONE TOOTH REMARKED THE BREATHER AND IT FIXED THE PROBLEM


Did it foul plugs, or just smoke?
It might be time to ask this guy if his trouble started around the time his cam cover was chromed.

Post Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:57 pm

Posts: 646
Location: Detroit
Curt has a valid point about guides in aluminum heads. I have never heard that using the same size replacement guides in aluminum heads ever works. Normally the next oversize (or two) is called for.

With a blown head gasket on a shovel, you can normally hear the problem from that particular jug. Hissing doesn't quite describe it so I will say I can't describe it properly in words but you will easily know it doesn't sound right.
New Knuckleheads? Thank, you, Jesus!!

Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:24 pm

Posts: 2399
Location: atascadero cal usa
it smoked real bad and fouled plugs
it had oil dripping heavily out of the rear pipe
shut it down pulled the carb and the oil was puddled in the intake
what was happening was the oil wasnt being removed from the case and was being hydraulic'd up past the new rings was my guess

on the valve guide subject
if you make sure you get all the carbon off the old guide b4 removing it
the next size up works fine as there isnt much aluminum pulled out with it
i measure the hole every time though cause i had a set in yrs ago that had like .008 over guides in a hole that took a .004 guide and is still on the road
how the clown that installed those .008 over ones didnt crack the head putting them in i have no clue

Post Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:35 pm

Posts: 919
Location: RENO,NV. U.S.A.
A lot of people have been using the CO2 fire extinguisher kit from GOODSON'S that will freeze the guide,it helps to heat an aluminum head also. BREWSKI

Post Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:05 pm

Posts: 197
Location: Bucktown, PA
I blasted the old guides before removing (natch) and heated the head in the oven before removal.
Found the first guide that was too big for the hole, then went 2 sizes past that.
Heated the head before installation, but didn't chill the guide.
Being that this thing ate a piston so quickly, I had a rare opportunity to check the valve job.
Nothing was getting past the guides, and the seats seated nicely (Neway cutters) and didn't leak a drop when I filled the heads with safetykleen and let them sit over night.
It's all just guesswork until I get the bike back, but I sure do appreciate the advice!
Somebody had done some terrible work on this bike in the past.
One valve collar was held in with one keeper, and it came out in 2 pieces (!!!), 2 guides were knurled, and one just dropped out when I took the valve out.
I'm leaning towards the breather problem.
I bet knurl boy was in there.

Post Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:41 am

Posts: 919
Location: RENO,NV. U.S.A.
The breather cavity in a OHV big twin case is typically Not knurled,I fail to see how this works,most people have it resleeved to standard size. BREWSKI

Post Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:57 pm

Posts: 197
Location: Bucktown, PA
I meant, I bet the guy who knurled the guides was also blundering about in the cam chest.


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