Board index Flathead Power-Technical Questions, Answers, and Suggestions 45 Flatties No Lead Gas?

No Lead Gas?

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

Post Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:51 pm

Posts: 75
Location: South Of The Yarra Dixon Line
We got to put up with no lead gas over here,there is a couple of alternates.

we can find some gas stations that sell premium 95 but still no lead content,

What Are you guy,s Runnning in your stocker 45s Is there a Lead additive or are you just happy to go Lead Free

Should I be Tunning this sucker any Different,Maybe its me but I find Peformance
of this ol Heap changes from what gas stations I use ? WTF""

Thanks Gruntis

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 2:57 am

Posts: 75
Location: South Of The Yarra Dixon Line
Thanks Mate" Yep I took that as Gospel and gave them valves plenty of clearence on the rebuild.

Made stainless valves for this one,its only got about 300 miles on it now. Hopefully lots more over xmas.

I kinda reckon the cylinder head Temp Changes with fuel blends on offer as well,


Thanks Gruntis

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:11 am

Posts: 3131
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Lead was a bad idea in the first place. (But we shall ignore the health concerns for now..)

It's value as a stem lubricant is highly over-rated in light of chrome or nitrided coatings, and it's digestive effect on oil makes that a bad tradeoff.

The basic benefits of tetraethyl lead were two things: octane increase, which is a fart in the dark on a flatty, and insulation against spot-welding of the valve to the seat. That IS a concern, particularly if you run a stainless valve against a castiron seat.

So the ironic delemma that we are left with is that modern manufacturers of valves put out even nitrided units with a stainless core. Duh.
This means that they expect everyone to have hardened (not matrix) seats.

It's a no win situation at that point. Unless you have the wallet to arbitrarily replace your flattie's valve seats with hardened ones that can easily shrink at the slightest sign of an intake leak, advanced timing from points cam wear, etcetera..

This whole scenario leaves us with either the choice of going back to the most primitive of materials, (because it works!), or spending incredible amounts of cubic dollars on the latest fad of hightech coatings.

So in our despair,... we turn to snake oils.

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:00 am

Posts: 118
Location: USA

i've been racing flathaeads for 15 years and i have boxes of exhaust valves that have been trashed. the soution i've found is cast iron guides run loose and marvel mystery oil in the fuel. i've tried all different kinds of fuel (leaded and unleaded) and all octanes. call it snake oil if you like, but it works.

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moon

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:22 am

Posts: 3131
Location: Central Illinois, USA
What lights the fuse every time is.... heat.

Find out where that comes from, and suddenly you CAN run stock spec on exhaust guides and straight fuel.

(PS: I DO use MM oil... on air filters.)

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:52 am

Posts: 75
Location: South Of The Yarra Dixon Line
WoW" Now thats a Tech Reply" Thanks Cotton & Moon

F... This sites Good"

Iam sold on the snake Oil ""

Now just Got too Find a Peddler


Gruntis

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 12:12 pm

Posts: 950
Location: Paris ::: France

Does anyone know where one can find Marvel Mystery Oil [or an equivalent] in europe?
Thanks,
Eric

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Eric :: Knk45
www.beautyofspeed.com
A state of the art power quest

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:07 pm

Posts: 976
Location: Markt Einersheim, Germany

Hi Eric,
Where you exactly? I am near Wurzburg, Germany. I can get you a bottle of MMO.

I have a bottle that I plan to use on my "rebuild"..

George

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:24 pm

Posts: 88
Location: ADIRONDACK MTS NY U.S.A

I buy Marvel Mystery Oil by the Gallon + use it in all my old + new Iron.Been usin it for many years as a fuel + oil additive

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:41 pm

Posts: 950
Location: Paris ::: France

I'm in France. How much are the bottles in terms on content & price? Thanks for offering!
Eric


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Eric :: Knk45
www.beautyofspeed.com
A state of the art power quest

Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:36 pm

Posts: 382
Location: Hill City,Kansas
I've been running the titamium nitrated stainless steel valves cast iron (loose) guideswith the hardened seats and have never had a problem with them coming loose but I think that has a lot to do with who did the machine work. I have had him do several sets and have never had a problem. And of course I swear by the mmo snake oil.But keep in mind it doesn't take much. I got one of those harley octane booster bottles after it was empty and carry it on my bike so I can get an accurate measurement.


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LIVE HARD...RIDE HARD
DIE FREE
GADGET

Post Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:03 am

Posts: 3131
Location: Central Illinois, USA
The concern with hardened seats goes beyond the machinist's skills.

Most (not all) hardened alloys have the habit of shrinking when they reach a critical temperature. That is why you can remove them by welding a bead around their face, and then they easily fall out. The same thing occurs if you run lean or advanced.

It's a problem for OHV's to keep them in if something elevates the combustion temperatures. Flattys operate normally at a higher temp than OHV's so the fuse is that much easier to light.

No additive in a bottle can help this circumstance. And if you must start off with loose-as-a-goose clearances to get by in the first place,...then you better start pressuretesting your manifolds and degree wheel your ignition.

Post Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:52 am
don User avatar

Posts: 574
Location: Spokane WA USA
For those who have not seen these posts,
As Amklyde has referred to "Drilled tappet blocks"; http://www.flatheadpower.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000120.html http://victorylibrary.com/wwwboard/messages//397.html
don

Post Thu Dec 19, 2002 5:05 am

Posts: 3131
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Conan!
Now consider this:

Perhaps the MMO is just slowing the oil from crusting up from the heat. Modern oils aren't made for aircooled flatties. The additives burn into hard soot.

There will never be enough flow of lube to cool a flattie's valve stems.
Nitrided stems and soft cast iron theory assumes next to no flow. Modern OHV's even have seals to prevent flow, lest carbonization fills the gap, resulting in sticking and wear.

MM Oil is the one lube that carbonizes the least. But you cannot run pure MMO!
Conventional oils with modern additives will carbonize and stick a properly fitted valve at flatty temperatures.

(Inspite of what Shell says, Aeroshell is probably the best motor oil for such an application, as it is ashless.)

And no doubt moderate use of MMO can only help.(You know when you have added too much when your plugs foul out!)

I have no qualms about using MMO as a safety net, but it is just that, and only that.

It is not a cure for the causes of elevated combustion temperatures. Only common sense does that.

Post Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:51 am

Posts: 382
Location: Hill City,Kansas
True fact and when I said loose valve guides I was not refering to "loose as a goose" just the loose side of the specs. Err to the side of richness and know what your engine is doing by sound and that takes and ear of experience I also failed to mention that I am running a thermostatic oil cooler. I definately recomend the cooler and thermostatic is the only way to go. And definately make sure of your intake seal as Cotton just might mention.(not to play it down as it is damned important!)

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LIVE HARD...RIDE HARD
DIE FREE
GADGET

Post Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:39 am

Posts: 67
Location: Australia
Gruntis
try REDEX from Repco (maybe Aussie MMO)easy on the revs, compression & temps, (old stock wla's will run on kero!)our American friends gave(lend lease) us the gift of these fine machines 60 years ago, they have survived war, neglect and bush mechanics! A little bit of care & common sense & they'll survive "unleaded" crap gas too!

later
harrison

later
harrison

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