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coatings

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motorizedcowboy

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 12:01 am

Location: San Antonio Tx.U.S.A

Post Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:25 am

coatings

Im thinking about having my heads and cylinders on my 45 ceramic coated.anyone ever had this done? Pros and cons?Seems alot better than paint but dont know if it would keep the heat in,which of course would not be good especially in south Texas!Thanks Ya all!
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1937hd45

Posts: 233

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ridgefield,Ct 06877

Post Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:46 am

The only repo item I have on my '37 project are powdercoated handlebars. They look like crap. Maybe this is because I did body and paint work for 15 years, and know a good paint job when I see it. Powdercoatind is good for exhaust systems only in my opinion.
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HOOTER

Posts: 1319

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 1:01 am

Location: State College, Pa.

Post Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:22 am

That would give you a thermal barrier. If you did this, only do the piston crown. this will keep more of the expansion pressure in the combustion chamber instead of turning to heat. About the only good thing for heat transfer is a light coat of flat black heat paint. Or for maximum heat transfer, copper plate them but they'll eventually turn green. Rust will retain heat so make sure your cylinders and heads are thoroughly bead blasted before painting.

HOOT
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:38 am

I did a Chief recently and had ceramic thermal barrier coatings done on the ports, top of the cylinder (combustion area)as well as teflon on the piston skirt, valve stems, springs, cam gears etc. Do not ceramic the outside of the cylinders, just saw a sporty melt the pistons at 250 miles (first long ride. IMHO.

Conan, I have a guy you need to talk to, you surely are not using Indians. This guy does a bang up job, is a biker, is close, and is fast. Powder or industrial coatings, good prep & regulates temps ....jb

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If the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them
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HOOTER

Posts: 1319

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 1:01 am

Location: State College, Pa.

Post Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:23 am

On sliding surfaces, such as pistons, valves, tappets, springs, gears, etc. I use a molybdenum compound made by Kalgard.

I thought for years that Teflon was the answer but found out that Teflon had a cold flow problem (doesn't stay on the part). It can squeegie out from under pressure and heat.

In the exotic material machineshop that I worked at I machined teflon but it wasn't until I machined Molybdenum that I started reading about it's properties. I never had a problem holding on to Teflon but when finishing Molybdenum parts, they seem to feel oily in my hands, even after degreasing with Trichloretyhelene.

Molybdenum is in the chrome family of metals. Doesn't have a cold flow problem.

On rings, you see chrome rings and moly rings available. Both have about the same coeficient of friction but chrome doesn't pass heat very well. Moly passes heat about the same as castiron but will last longer and have less coeficience of friction. Your piston passes it's combustion heat mainly through the rings to the cylinders. Thus your best choice would be the moly rings. For years I've stocked rings with a chrome top ring (for the lack of lubrication) and a cast iron 2nd ring. This made a longer lasting topend but moly should beat this. Dual chrome rings can't pass enough heat sufficienlty under some applications and can lead to a runaway heat problem til the piston crown collapses'

Kalgard sells/sold 2 types for ferrous and nonferrous applications.

I've used it as a thermal barrier in the exhaust ports, piston crown, combustion chambers.

Reducing friction on piston skirts, cylinder walls, shafts running on bushings, valves, guides, rocker shafts, shifting linkage, anything that slides.

Don't use it on ringlands.

Whew! Another Jaegermeister for me.

HOOT
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Tue Apr 23, 2002 7:25 pm

The stuff that thes guys apply is the same as GM and HD uses on piston skirts. It is self sacrificing, it will break away to prevent a siezure. They have moly coatings also.

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If the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them
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motorizedcowboy

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 12:01 am

Location: San Antonio Tx.U.S.A

Post Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:28 am

conan you wouldnt believe me if I told you who shot JFK anyway but that is another subject,but the coverups seem to be and interesting topic.
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:13 am

As far as I know, Mason found Indian's first, and I used him for a long time, but on late model stuff, he was using too much heat, when the case bolts are annealed, that's too hot. I quit going there for that reason. Good people though. This guy uses some baddass primer and paint that is baked on for frames if you don't want powder. I saw a bike I did about 15 years ago recently and the frame was still slick as a gut. I'll have to take you over there. I hardly ever recommend anyone, but this guy is good.

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If the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:40 am

The new powders are getting lower and lower cure rates, and I don't think any are over 400 deg, and some are certainly a lot less. 900 degrees will anneal steel and aluminum if cooled properly. I won't let anyone use anything over 350 on any of my parts, and I have been trying to learn more about what alloys will take what heat. later...jb

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