FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

Oil pump sump fix ?

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

<<

Brendan

Posts: 96

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Location: Orlando

Post Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:02 pm

Oil pump sump fix ?

I am on my second oil pump body due to wet sumping a quart overnight.
I thought I saw a post here that showed the exact machining model for the two check ball seats.
I thought Mr. cotton produced the machining angles.

I want to bring one of the pump bodies to my machine shop at work but it don't have the dimensions for the ball seat for optimal closure so it will stop the oil from sumping. If someone knows where the post is, or has a sketch of the optimal ball seat dimensions, I sure would appreciate it. If it works I will do both pumps.
It seems to me the sharper the edge the better. Maybe?

Thanks

Brendan
<<

woody

Posts: 502

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Wa, USA

Post Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:44 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

There have been many posts on this issue over the years. I have had good results by using a 3/8" ball mill on the end of a 1/4" or 5/16" rod and silver soldering a 3/8" carbide ball on the radiused end. I used this in a drill with fine lapping compound to lap the seat. Many have said this is not the best method, but it has worked for me. I have been able to rescue bodies that were very rusted and pitted and they worked quite well.
<<

Cotten

User avatar

Posts: 2685

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 am

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

Brendan!

After the agony of many attempts at contour cutting, grinding, lapping, burnishing, and even smacking with a drift,...
CHEKTULS.jpg

I found that all methods only worsen a seat beyond a simple flat grind to a 'zero degree' sharp edge.
CHEKSTON.jpg

The seat is often not concentric to the plug threads or the rest of the well, and occasionally the casting is 'chilled', making it too hard to cut or burnish.

Bubbles tell all,
CHEKTEST.jpg

.....Cotten
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
<<

knucklebolt

Posts: 255

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:52 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

I've got to add...be 100% sure your spring is actually putting pressure on the ball. Don't ask me how I know that.

ken.
<<

Brendan

Posts: 96

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Location: Orlando

Post Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

I am grinding the top and I need to put a slight, sharp 60 degree angle on the circumference due to the hole edges not perfect. To much, and crap can get between the ball and seat.

Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Brendan
<<

Brendan

Posts: 96

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Location: Orlando

Post Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:17 am

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

So frustrated, I tried the pump I modified and it seemed to leak slow until I rode it. Then it stopped. I rode again and it sat for a week and it leaked until it came out of the front chain oiler. It Basically filled the crank case.

I thought this would be the least of my problems after rebuilding the engine and transmission.

I have three pump bodies. The last one I bought was supposedly new repop.

Is it possible for the oil to leak into the crankcase through the valve cam gear that turns the pump?
<<

woody

Posts: 502

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Wa, USA

Post Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:33 am

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

Possible but highly improbable if the bushing has been fitted properly.

The cheapest and quickest fix for this is a manual valve in the feed line to shut it off when not running. Just don't forget to turn it on before starting. :)
<<

Brendan

Posts: 96

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Location: Orlando

Post Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

The thing is, I have tried by best to follow Bruce Palmer's book "How to Restore Military Harley Davidson" even down to cad screws parkerizing, paint, nos and restored used parts. I would hate to put a fault peculiar valve on the bike.
<<

Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4776

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

Brendan, I agree with you. Keep it stock. There must be a reason for the issue that has been over looked.
<<

Brendan

Posts: 96

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Location: Orlando

Post Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:00 am

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

I checked the vent tube and return tank tubes for leak back but they are dry. I need a known good ,or known semi good pump, that wont leak out over the course of 5 days to see if i have bushing problem.

i honestly thought I would have transmission , engine, electrical, or fuel issues when i first started her.

I took it for a ride last weekend and the only issue is the rider, I never rode a tank shifter, It might as well have been a helicopter the way I handled the throttle , shifter, brake and clutch.
<<

knucklebolt

Posts: 255

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm

Location: Six miles East of Cheney, Wa.

Post Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

Just as an experiment, why not put a long, heavy spring in there JUST to see if it continues to wet sump. ?? That would be a sure way to eliminate one or two variables. Why ASSUME that the stock spring is either long enough, or putting enough pressure on the ball?

I hear you on the shifting. I rode a knuck with a "suicide" shift, shift lever directly off the tranny, and a foot clutch, that did/does NOT stay in/engaged if you take your foot off it, for like 20 years. At one time I believe I could work that clutch and shifter as well as anyone with a hand clutch and foot shift. Then I rode a hand clutch for about ten years, then last year I put together a big twin flathead with the same clutch and hand shift set up. I thought it would be like getting back on the perverbial bicycle again. Wrong! Took 50 miles just to get somewhat reacquainted with it, to where I didn't feel like I was flying a helicopter for the first time, and 1,000 miles later I'm not quite back to where I was on the Knuck. !!! But I'm close...or at least now comfortable in city traffic. Takes a "little" practice!

Good luck.

k.
<<

Brendan

Posts: 96

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Location: Orlando

Post Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:35 pm

Re: Oil pump sump fix ?

Knucklebolt, That is a great diagnostic idea. REALLY plug the check ball paths. I think I plug the check holes with ta couple of those rubber cones used to keep paint out of holes. Fill it with oil and monitor. Not start it.
Off comes the pump and and an experiment begins.

How much play should I expect in the throttle grip?

Thanks


Brendan

Return to 45 Flatties

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bur, Google [Bot] and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2012 phpBB Group.