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Seat leather etc.

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JON

Posts: 98

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:31 am

Seat leather etc.

Hi,

Few years gone with bare painted seat-pan. Now discussion goin on with one furniture-repairer, who (she) seems to be ok. To do packing and covering close to original.
Don't want any plastics in. Want it to be "breathable", i.e. the moisture can move in and out. The pan has holes.
Q: what is a "BAT" to proceed, within these limitations? How these were made (somewhere 'bout fourties), which materials and other info wanted and appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

JON
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4471

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:48 am

Re: Seat leather etc.

Go to the following link and email Michael at http://worshamcastle.com/ . He can help you out. Pa
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Worshamcastle

Posts: 3

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:29 pm

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:00 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

A standard solo seat would have 3/4 inch thick moulded foam padding, a deluxe solo would be 2 inches thick. The cover would have been 3--4 ounce chrome tanned leather but vegetable tanned will work as well. The rivets that hold the leather binding in place on the bottom of the seat would be 1933-March 1942 Nickle plated, 42--46 parkerized, 47 and up, black japanned steel.
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JON

Posts: 98

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Thanks for fast answers.

What means "moulded foam"? The foam that's used "nowadays"?
I thought that padding material was some hemp/linea or even some hay from waters.
Trying to get it close to original way.
Foam or silicone paddings are not what looking for.

Any more ideas?

JON
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MarkBranst

Posts: 341

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Jon,

What WORSHAMCASTLE is trying to tell you is that for most saddles built in the Forties or later, foam is STANDARD and ORIGINAL.

According to Palmer (p. 70), "1934-41 standard solo seats used sponge rubber between the pan and leather. 1942 and 1946-later seats used thicker spun latex rubber. 42WLA and perhaps all 1943-1945 models used horse hair stuffing."

Mark
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JON

Posts: 98

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Ok.
Gotta have few more beers with my "saddler".

JON

Ps. didn't find proper info from "how to restore military".
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Worshamcastle

Posts: 3

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:29 pm

Post Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:56 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Jon--the reason you did not get info on a military saddle is that you did not specify a military seat. 3/4 inch goathair ( notice not horsehair padding) parkerized rivets and 3 parkerized studs on each side. Good luck trying to find a furniture upholster to do that seat or any seat for that matter---M
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45Brit

Posts: 1359

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

"The Vintage Motorcyclists' Workshop" by 'Radco' is THE book for a job like this. Lots of real old-school stuff, first printed in the 1950s and sporadically reprinted over the years - mine is dated 1986. Can be found on Amazon and ebay, not particularly rare but very expensive.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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MarkBranst

Posts: 341

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:45 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Worshamcastle,

Here in the States, animal hair stuffing was almost always referred to as "horse hair" stuffing, as typically in used in furniture, or as noted by Palmer. Now, unless you have had an expert microscopically examine vintage WWII HD seat stuffing, and he/she has determined that it was goat hair, I would suggest some caution. It
very well might be be goat hair, but I have no way of knowing whether that is correct or not ...

It may very well have been a combination of various acceptable animal fibers.

Mark
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4471

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Actually Mark.... Michael has my original goats hair stuffing from my wla seat in his possession. Michael did a fantastic and outstanding restoration job on my seat for me. I initially thought it was horse hair also. As far as all seats go ? I would not know but Michael has done a great deal of extensive research on seat materials etc.. Hopefully, his book will be released in the near future. I am already on the first publish list. :D Pa
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Worshamcastle

Posts: 3

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:29 pm

Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:58 am

Re: Seat leather etc.

Mark--I have over 300 copies of factory production drawings for H-D seats, saddlebags, and related items. The drawings specify goat hair padding for 1942 --45 solo seats, civilian or military .--Michael
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Cotten

User avatar

Posts: 2654

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:37 am

Re: Seat leather etc.

Folks,

Many materials have been given incorrect traditional names, such as bronze carbs that are called "brass", "potmetal" which is die-cast zinc, "mag" wheels that are overwhelmingly aluminum, etc.

And logically, sheared goats would be a much more renewable, and cheaper source of hair than slaughtered horses. Beyond their manes and tails (which they need badly while alive to fend off flies), horses just don't have that thick of a pelt all year 'round, and they were farmed for much more important purposes. Sheep's wool would have been needed for uniforms of course. Boar bristles might have been an option, but collecting enough of them would have been a problem!

....Cotten
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MarkBranst

Posts: 341

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:14 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Michael and Pa,

Thanks for the additional information. Clearly, you guys know a lot more about this topic that I do, and I do appreciate the research of others ...

Pa, in passing I would note that at this point in time (2011), I think we (not necessarily you) greatly under-appreciate the number of horses that were slaughtered on a commercial basis during the first half of the twentieth century. I have been doing some research on the old East St. Louis stockyards here in Illinois and was damn near speechless when I learned what the capacity of that single facility was ...

"By the late 1930s, these numbers had increased even more dramatically, with DAILY animal-handling capacities of 25,000 cattle, 25,000 sheep, 5,000 horses and mules, and fully 50,000 pigs … fully justifying its status as “Hog Capitol of the Nation.”

Although goat hair was apparently specified, as Michael noted, horse hair would also have been available in significant quantities.

Mark
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4471

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:15 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Yeah Mark...tis a shame dog food sometimes took presidence over animal and even jello from the hoof was in huge demand, not to mention...glue. I definately see your point and it is well taken.
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Cotten

User avatar

Posts: 2654

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Mark!

Those are indeed speechless numbers!

What makes me even more speechless is that you, as a fellow Illinoisan, bought the "“Hog Capitol of the Nation” line,
when EVERY Illinoisan knows that title went to Kewanee!
Actually,... of the "World"!

(Motorcycle content: Kewanee , Illinois was the final home for the legendary Hank Reiman
reiman2.jpg
and his son Roger.)
RReiman.jpg

...Cotten
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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MarkBranst

Posts: 341

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:33 pm

Re: Seat leather etc.

Cotten,

:lol:

Mark

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