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45 project bikes

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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:00 am

45 project bikes

seeing the post earlier about 4-speed lightweight 45, thought I'd post a couple of pics of my seemingly endless project

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/grass_stroker/45dec09001.jpg

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/grass_stroker/45dec09006.jpg

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/grass_stroker/45dec09004.jpg

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/grass_stroker/45dec09003.jpg

I really will get this bike finished some one of these days. Still, it at least LOOKS like a bike now....
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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RUBONE

Posts: 380

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Post Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:05 am

Re: 45 project bikes

I like it! Is that Triumph rigid rear section? BSA fork and wheel? Tell us about it. :?:
Robbie
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37ULH

Posts: 684

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:01 am

Location: somerset, oh usa

Post Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

Appears that he used the entire frame and made his own mounting for the motor. Perhaps would have been better to make the mounting area thicker and then milled the mounting surfaces but sometimes you have to work within your own means.
Should be a nice ride when you get it all worked through.
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:55 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

it's an Ariel frame, box stock. Probably originally from a 500cc single but it's hard to say, all heavyweight Ariels used the same frame post-war. Forks are Ariel, wheels are BSA.. but I will be changing the forks for BSA ones to simplify assembly.

gearbox is from an A10 BSA. Belt drive and clutch is a Tony Hayward unit which used to be on a roadracer at one time; front pulley is a special item using thr Hayward tooth ring pressed onto a turned-down pulley from 45 Depot ( because the belt sizes and types didn't match - HD clutches are bigger than BSA ones and the tooth profile is different, too ). The whole set-up caused no end of problems but I'm pleased with it now it's done.

oil tank is, well, something I had in the shed, 1980s Paughco Mustang tank the same. Footboard hardware is a mixture of NOS and 45 Depot stuff, including a Servicar left pedal and side rail.

bars are currently 1" items from an HD flat-track XR750, clutch lever is an original HD front brake lever - but I will probably go to 7/8" bars and repro levers to make it easier to match the cables up.

so, we now have a rolling machine with all the bits in line and clearance for the things that need it.


the motor mounts were a subject of much discussion. The mounts you see are the second set, which include a fotboard mount which in the event, hasn't worked out. Don't know if we will use them, there are 3 different sets. Aim is to finalise them and then weld them into a solid box section, rather than the present bolt-up configuration




There is an engine packed away, with #6 heads, WLDR cams and stroked to 54" using T&O flywheels and pistons. After much discussion with my engine builder we left the baffles in, which I'll be interested to see how that pans out. The engine in the bike is a spare unit which wil probably be rebuilt when I have time and funds.

that's about all for now
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:36 am

Re: 45 project bikes

looking at the photos again I see the bike is currently wearing the second set of engine plates, and looking in the workshop I see the third set are doing duty as an engine stand :oops:

the back-story to this bike, is that in the late 60s and early 70s, there was a well-known British custom bike builder called Ray Leon. With his partner John Wallace, they built a series of converted 45s ( for the sake of availability ) using various British hardware. There was a much-photographed yellow 45 with aftermarket springers ( Leon Wallace were about the first people to import this kind of stuff to UK ) and a Triumph clutch and gearbox. He also pretty much wrote the book on these British-framed 45s and most past and current builders followed his methods. The comment about the engine mount being welded plate as opposed to milled, because of limitations of available facilities, is probably spot on. Engine plates were usually 3/16" steel in those days, or alloy from Unity Equipe and other 'Triton' builders

there were about 4 main variants;

1) Triumph swing-arm front section converted to rigid, using extended aftermarket rear section or altered stock rear section. This means the engine fitted into the original engine/gearbox space and the rear section was extended by extending the lower chain stays. Relatively simple job, two tubes to cut and weld using slugs. Geometry is less critical because any problems can be, to some extent, fixed using a cold bender!! Created room for the transmission in the 'rigid' position - behind the seat post - and effectively raked the bike at the same time, with no alteration of the main section. Usual 70s aftermarket forward controls with long brake rod! Can be further disguised using the 'long' type primary chaincase, exhaust bent to follow the lower frame rails, and aftermarket 'round' oil tank and battery tray to fill the space under the seat.

Ray himself sometimes rode a bike of this type called 'Bluegrass Special
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:51 am

Re: 45 project bikes

2) next variant was a BSA swing-arm A10 frame with the front section cut and welded to provide about a 3" extension. Similar in some ways to Dr Dick's Frankenstein bike, but with the extended frame providing room for the generator. Usually fitted with a short rigid conversion ( the gearbox here is within the main loop and the bike is already 3" over-length ) with the then-usual lower chainstay raking trick.

70s custom bikes were generally much higher than current trends, Britain being a place where you regularly meet roundabouts and raised manhole covers, and the corollary ( that by extending the lower chainstays and fitting relatively short forks, you achive a low profile with a moderate additional rake ) wasn't much done.


3) a bike I once saw was basically similar to the Triumph type, using the rare BSA "plunger A10" frame.



4) another rare variant used the Ariel rigid frame. The Ariel frame was made to accomodate anything up to the Square 4 and had more room in the engine space, and that handy break in the front downtube. The curved front engine plates are based on the "Squariel" pattern. This one was a simple build-up which didn't need any cutting and welding, so it was sometimes used by riders not interested in the 'custom' scene, but simply seeking to use a NOS 45 engine in their blown-up VB or Hunter.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:27 am

Re: 45 project bikes

Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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jib

Posts: 572

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:32 am

Re: 45 project bikes

like the stance with the bars 45brit. regards jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:11 am

Re: 45 project bikes

the bars are a repro set copied from a dirt-track XR750, I just chose them because I liked them.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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jib

Posts: 572

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:47 am

Re: 45 project bikes

very similar to some moto x bars i had, that i ground off the cross bar and put 2 inchs into the center. jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

those bars have a 3" slug in the centre because the Ariel clamps are 7/8". I'm still looking at the whole issue, I haven't decided whether to go with the 1" bars and vintage H-D style levers ( which means special cables ) or go to 7/8" bars, copy the shape and get cables off the shelf.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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dalaymond

Posts: 304

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Jonesville, Louisiana, USA

Post Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

Nice project.
Last edited by dalaymond on Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1551

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:49 am

Re: 45 project bikes

45Brit,
That Ariel frame looks to solve the generator problem very nicely. I like the looks, Of course, sticking a 45 in anything light with 4 speeds looks good to me. Interesting projects in the background too. curious about the one looks like it has upside down forks, what's the frame? That baby should have no problems stopping, for sure.
Interesting to hear about the work done in the UK in the 60's and 70's. Over here, I hadn't heard of it, figured I was doing something unique. Should know better, with all the raw material available over there. :lol:
DD
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:40 am

Re: 45 project bikes

there is a 45 engine in a BSA A10 frame which appears regularly at the Red Marley hillclimb and goes like a good 'un. Runs on petrol, by the smell of it. Most Brooklands sv racers were dope-burners, mainly for the reliability, cooling effect and resistance to pre-ignition at very high running temperatures. Bear in mind that ACU Standing Regs don't allow nitro except for drag racing.

45s haven't got much competition history over here because of the cost, lack of parts, free availability of British bikes and parts and of course, no special class for sv engines.

The post-war Ariel rigid frame was designed as a 'common' unit and therefore has room for the second crank on a Square 4, hence the extra length in the engine bay. The open front downtube is just an Ariel design quirk. This doesn't apply to swing-arm frames, which were basically patterned for BSA-type engines. The full-length bottom frame rails also mean that the 45 engine isn't used as a stressed frame menber, which it isn't designed to do.

the background bikes are just various choppers Joe has built the frames for, that's his business. Years ago he took this job on for me, and he does a bit when he has time and I have a few bob spare or some interesting item or other - the belt drive was no part of the original parts pile, for example, and for the amount of work and end cost, I wouldn't do that particular aspect of the bike again!
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:43 am

Re: 45 project bikes

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/grass_stroker/nortonflathead.jpg

flathead 45 in Norton frame

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af356/grass_stroker/HD45_004.jpg

M20 BSA frame plus 45 engine - clearance problems, by the look of it :?
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

did a bit more on this bike..

Image

Image

Image

pipes look better in the metal than on the photo. Don't know about that toolbox, I have a couple of alternatives in mind. Bird deflector over the carb came from, well, i don't remember where it came from
Last edited by 45Brit on Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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servi53

Posts: 37

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:26 pm

Location: central IL.

Post Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

that thing is cool as hell
servi53
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joe-petrali

Posts: 3

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:03 pm

Post Wed May 05, 2010 3:17 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

new video clip from my FLATHEAD racing bike (15 years of work) at last!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mG0BYwddgw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoyj6NqVmhM part 2
Last edited by joe-petrali on Thu May 27, 2010 5:01 am, edited 6 times in total.
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Wed May 05, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: 45 project bikes

I am on a dredger in the Baltic right now and can't get youtube, I'll have to put it on my 'to-do' list for when I get back later in the month
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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45Brit

Posts: 1416

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:20 am

Re: 45 project bikes

got some more done on this.. sorted out the rusty mess of the front forks, basically kept the sliders and yokes and replaced everything else!

Image

Image
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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