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WLA Trans In Progress

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Pa

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:06 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

I've decided to extend this topic to a build program. Since this tranny is only in the beginning of it's refurbishment, I think maybe, just maybe, it ought to go step by step. Hopefully, the build will influence and help those who are doing their own builds, especially for those who can not afford to have it done by others, and must cut corners and do it themselves. Also....since my timely skills have diminished over time. I got plenty of time to do this tranny this way. :wink: Even after the many 45 trannies I have refurbished, I forget more than I learned anymore ! :mrgreen: In the long run. maybe..... this topic will actually help somebody out. To update everyone interested, I have alread knocked the undersized clutch gear race out, for re grind. No pics on this...I screwed up again. I will take pics of the race getting installed, after grinding though. That will be after baking a tranny cake at, at just less than 300 degree F.. We'll do our best to instruct that that point on. Any suggestions on instruction material or educational reference, that should be included, before we get to the next step ? One note though....this tranny is to be built as an early 42wla model trans. There will be no olive drab paint on the case, as the later 42wla's. No olive drab top cover either. The early was plated. Given all the variances in the model 42wla's, type I through type 7, this ought to be fun.

Don't you dare add up the hours Steve ! :mrgreen: Pa
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ohio-rider

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:50 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Thank you for doing a step by step on this tranny Pa. The way I treat mine it's only a matter of time before I will be needing some good documentation on how to do it for my self. Man! I'm the last guy to start counting hours. As you know I've been since last November to just put a set of handlebars together. :oops:
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DodgyLoner

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:41 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Hi Pa - Thanks in advance for doing this step by step build.

Ive heard of the race problem somewhere before, it was said that the race was intentionally slightly undersized to allow for "line honing" with the gearbox side cover race. The tool for this wasn't described but sounded very similar in principle to the adjustable lapping tool used to align the engine case bearing races. Not sure if this was a Big Twin gearbox tool that was being used on the 45.

Karl
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George Greer

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Post Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:19 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa,

Cool Idea...I wish that I when I started my WLA that I had some extra insite and assistance like this.

When I started my trannie, All I had was books.... step by step, sometimes not really clear which way to go on the rebuild of it.

But with the books and this forum.. I got it done.

Eaiser to do once you do one and understand it all.....It is rather frustrating to do at first, assemble/measure/disassemble...remeausre make sure adjustments correct.......then do it all again........and DON'T Misplace any shims!!

Have fun.....take pics...Photos says a lot.

George
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Pa

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Post Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

OK....Here we go...at least, this is the beginning of where I left off. I had already replaced both 2172-26 tripper bolts, 2173-41 tripper bolt nuts, 2242-38C shifter shaft lrg. bushing, 2242-38B shifter shaft sm. bushing, and 2312-26 left side countershaft bushing. I had also completed all the previously installed bushings', reaming and fitting. I had also made sure the 2245-41 gear shifting fork shaft, 2244-41 gear shifting cam shaft, 2242-40 gear shifter lever shaft, and 2300-41 countershaft, all fit nicely into their respective positions. I had also miced out the bore in the case for the 2518-41 clutch bearing race. This is a critical are to be concerned with. I have seen, many times, this bore to be egg shaped, or to tight or to large for the interference fit of a new race. .0005" to .0015" interference is all that is need. Any tighter and the new 2518-41 clutch bearing race may shrink in size, after installation, into the case. I ran taps through all tapped holes, to enable easy assembly along the way. Along with all of this work, I dressed all the gasket surfaces, to insure there were no burrs or obstructions. Gasket surfaces are not the only areas to be concerned with. The area where the 2299-41 second gear retaining bracket seats needs attention as well. Not to mention the surfaces the 2518-41 clutch gear race seats against. Do the same to all areas, where you replace a bushing, etc..

I have since corrected my oversight of micing the nos 2518-41 clutch gear bearing race. I've re ground the race I.D. to minimum tolerances of .0006" clearance, using a factory spec size journal 2513-41 clutch gear, along with standard size 2289-36 roller bearings of .1250". In this particular trans build, my clutch gear bearing race to case bore, interference fit, is .0007". I am very pleased with this fit. The squeeze on the race will not shrink my re ground race I.D. size. As I suspected, after race installation, size held perfectly.

After I re ground the cluster gear race, I cleaned the case thoroughly with hot soapy water and brushes, then rinsed the same way. I then placed the clutch gear race in the freezer so it would shrink down the diameter a bit. Every little bit helps when looking for an easy installation. I then setup a couple of parallels to suspend the case, high enough above the length of the protruding clutch gear race during installation. I used two 1" square high speed tool bits as my parallels. I laid protect strips of paper over the parallels as well. Next I placed my trans case on a cookie sheet and closed it up in the Ole ladies oven. Do not preheat the oven ! You want the case to heat with the oven. With oven set at 285 degrees F, I allowed the case to cook for 5 minutes extra, after preset oven temperature was acquired. Snatching up a pair of the Ole Ladies pot holders, I removed the case form the oven, placed it onto my make shift installation setup, removed the clutch gear race from the freezer, steadily placed the race into position over the case bore opening, keeping it as close to center as possible, and let her drop. The race dropped into the bore nicely. I heard the sound of it bottoming out on the machined in case race lip. I then placed my make shift weight on top of the race. I do this for insurance purposes. The weight keeps the race from walking up and out any, while everything cools down.

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Note the pilot on the end of my weight. It is turned to miss the clutch gear thrust bearing race cage /ball assembly path, yet it delivers good pressure around the clutch gear outer race diameter.

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After a couple of hours of cooling the case off to room temperature, I re miced the clutch gear race. All was good. Now I was ready to assemble the clutch gear to the race. Since I do not have the 2512-41 clutch gear oil seal installed already, I will explain that part when I get to it. I prefer to have it removed when fitting the clutch gear to the race anyway. The clutch gear will turn more easily without it installed. It is a little tricky keeping the clutch gear in the race, while installing the rollers though. I do this by installing the 2522-41 clutch gear thrust bearing race and the 2521-41 clutch gear thrust bearing cage/ball assembly, onto the clutch gear. Install the 2521-41 clutch gear thrust bearing cage/ball assembly, with the open end of the cage, facing the clutch gear. Next I installed the assembly into the case race via the inside out. Using one hand to create slight pressure on the assembly, in order to keep the assembly seated against the inner face of the clutch gear race [ this also helps center the assembly to the clutch gear race ] I rolled the trans case over for the roller installation. This gets on the nerves a bit. I use tweezers to install each roller, one at a time. Since I knew my measurements were correct, I knew all 40 rollers would go in. And they did. Assembly to the race and rollers showed free movement and no noticeable side play. YES !!!! Now it was time to disassemble these parts for lubing. I prefer to dry fit initially. Lube will prevent a good feel while fitting. I now install 2299-39 second gear retainer bracket, 2299-33A retainer bracket bolt washer, and 1123-29 retainer bracket bolts.

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I tighten them down until they bottom first. I then start tightening them down, one at a time, from one bolt head to the other, until I feel they are really good and snug. I've no value for this tightening procedure. Just don't strip them out ! Once I feel I have them good and snug, I check to see if the retainer bolt lock washer tabs align with the flats on the sides of the bolt heads. If they do not, I tighten them a bit more, just until the first bolt head flat, aligns with the closest lock washer tab.

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Now I bend the aligned lock washers tabs. I like to place them snug against the bolt head flats.

Now I'll reassembly the clutch gear components again. But first I lightly coat them in grease. I use white lithium grease for this. It is thinner and spreads thinner than standard bearing grease types. It will also blend into [ mix with ] the motor oil I will use, once assembly is completed. The grease will protect the components prior to first use as well. I coat the clutch gear roller bearing journal, clutch gear thrust bearing race face where the rollers will ride against, clutch gear race I.D., clutch gear thrust bearing ball pocket, clutch gear thrust bearing race ball pocket, clutch gear thrust bearing race cage/ball assembly,. then I reassemble them to the case. Next I coat the 2520-41 clutch gear roller bearing thrust washer and install it. Then I coat the 2520-41A clutch gear roller bearing thrust washer retainer washer and install.

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Below pic shows first clutch gear assembly, before second gear retainer bracket is installed and lube is used.

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This will end this part of the build for now. The next step will be to install the 2512-41 clutch gear oil seal. I'll show this installation using the correct tool used for this. I could not find my oil seals so I need to look for them before I can go any farther along with the build assembly. I'll do some other things related to the build but will not post them until I get the seal installed.
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Pa

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Post Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:36 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Found one of my seals and got it installed. I'll try and post the procedure I used, while utilizing the factory removal and installation tool kit, tomorrow. Pa
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Pa

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Post Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

The first set of 10 images below are of the factory 12735-42 clutch gear oil seal remover and installer tool kit. In this case, I will be installing the seal and using only the tool kit components I need to do the task.

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The next set of two images below are of the NOS OEM 2512-41 clutch gear oil seal. Both views are showing the spring side of the seal. This is the side which will face the clutch gear. Since the material which makes up the actual lip of the seal is very rigid, I will warm the seal up to about 120 degrees, in order to make it more flexible for installation purposes.

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The next set of three images below are of the oil seal guide sleeve, from the 12735-42 tool kit. First image shows the guide sleeve, as positioned into place, upon the clutch gear oil seal. This is the first step in installing the seal, using this tool kit. The guide sleeves counter bored end, is in position on the seals closed side, seal side facing away from clutch gear. I have lightly greased both, the seals lip, and the sleeve all over, inside and out. The second images shows my makeshift press, a block of 2x4, placed on top of the guide sleeve. The third image shows the guide sleeve as now pressed into the seals lip. This procedure prevents damaging of the seals lip.

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The next set of three images below, show the steps, using the components of the tool kit, to install the seal. First image shows the guide seal, and seal, as placed onto the clutch gear shaft. The counter bore shoulder in the guide sleeve, will seat against the clutch gears splined shoulder face. The second image shows the tool kits pilot shaft, as threaded onto the clutch gear threads. The pilot will bottom out against the clutch gear when threaded on. The third image shows the tool kits puller body, now assembled to the pilot stud. Note the L shaped lever, of the puller body, positioned to the left. Support the clutch gear from the inside of the trans case so the gear will not move out of the bore any. Push the puller body onto the pilot until the seal touches the entrance to the seal bore in the clutch gear race.

Image

The next set of four images are a continuance of the previous three images. First image is of the tool kits pusher, as now installed. Screw the pusher into the puller body, as far as possible, without it moving the puller body, away from the seal. Second image shows the tool kits nut now installed. Snug nut good against the pusher. The third image shows the tool kits T-handles in place in the pusher, and the direction, counter clockwise, the handles will be turned. Note how the L shaped handle on the puller body, will now act as an opposing force. The fourth image, is of the seal, now installed into the clutch gear race. Turn T-handles counterclockwise until seal bottoms out on face, of clutch gear race seal fit bore. Installation of clutch gear oil seal is now completed. Remove tool kits components in reverse order.

Image
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Pa

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:53 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Well.......ran into another glitch ! Seems one of my nos oem parts was mislabeled. The second and high gear shifter clutch [2298-41 old # or 35445-41 new # ], is not what is was labeled as. I don't even know what this particular shifter clutch is, that was in the mislabeled package. I have all nos oem parts for the inside of this transmission. I would really like to keep it that way. I do have a few good usable oem clutches but, as I said, I would really like to keep the internals all nos. Anyone have one they are will to part with ? Thanks, Pa
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FlatHeadSix

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:41 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

I've been lurking in the background here since I followed the link from the AMCA forum. I've been down this road a couple times myself but I'm always willing to learn so don't be afraid to get technical and tell us EVERYTHING we need to know about putting one of these together the right way.

I was forced to do my first WL tranny rebuild because of a catastrophic failure. My son and I were heading home after a 100 mile poker run when the rollers inside the cluster gear quit rolling, the countershaft literally welded itself to the cluster gear and the starter crank slammed straight to the pavement at about 40 mph. The shaft took a few other parts with it when it headed south and it makes a noise that's hard to describe, something like all hell breaking loose I imagine.

Anyway Pa, stay with it and keep the pictures and narratives coming, you're doing a great job with this. Thanks for posting the link.

mike

p.s. FOR SALE: OEM countershaft and Roller Bearing Set, used, CHEAP!
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Last edited by FlatHeadSix on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Pa

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:31 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Thanks Mike and WOW !!! what a failure ! Sure makes a wreck of things fast, as they go out that quickly. Pa
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Pa

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Wow again !!! I won't be needing an NOS OEM second and high shifter clutch now. Steve Lemay and Mike Carter, both offered one up. Steve beat Mike to it, so Steves' will be the one that goes in the trans. A special thanks to both of these outstanding Bros' !!!

While I await the shifter clutch, I will proceed to check fits on the other components of the mainshaft. I'll fit the cluster gear and rollers to the countershaft as well. I spent the better part of this day cleaning cosmoline off of parts. Last night I checked the side cover and sprocket cover for burrs etc.. I made certain the trans side cover studs would slip through their respective positions. I did this because I have been in the middle of a build before, when the studs interfered with a nice tap on cover fit. I made up my mind several builds ago, to make sure all will go together, before I get into a tight spot again. The key to a smooth build is knowing what you have, to start with. I may sound repetitive here but everything should be inspected. Remember my clutch gear race ? If I would have checked it, intead of assuming, I wouldn't have had to do as much work with it. It pays to document shaft journal and bore sizes. It also pays to slide splined parts, over mating parts, to insure free movement. Slide gears onto their respective positions and give them a spin. Check seal fits for burrs. Check shims and spacers for burrs. Document race and bushing sizes. always deburr gasket faces. Always run a tap into threaded holes. Even thread hole can have a burr around the holes opening. Knock it off with a fine file. Check everything ! To sum all this up.... good preparation, such as the previously mentioned tasks, will make for a fairly easy assembly.

Pa
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ohio-rider

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:36 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Careful now Pa. Your begining to sound like an old machinist. :D
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Pa

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:48 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

An ancient machinist ! :mrgreen:
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100incscoot

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Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:25 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

hey mike i dont know what oil you were using but never use anything but a str8 grade oil like 30to60 wt
not multi grade
and never use snake oils like slick50 in any roller motor or trans
rollers need to roll not slide as i see your most likely did on you
hey pa
that shifter clutch is the harder one to find of the 2 thats why i had no spares of it but rather offered you a loan from one of my wr tranny's parts
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FlatHeadSix

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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:45 am

Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:49 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

scoot, I've never run anything but str8 weight dead dinosaur in any of my old trannies. I've read all the pros & cons over the years about the benefits of gear lube, synthetic blends, high-pressure lubes, etc, but I still can't find any compelling reason to switch. They were designed to use the same oil that went into the engine, they worked fine when they were originally built, why change now?

I suspect that water was the enemy in this case (pun intended), it blew up in late March about 5 years ago at the Louisiana State H.O.G. Rally, first time out for the bike that year after sitting in the shed all winter. Probably my fault for not checking it closer before riding it 100 miles. A BIG maintenance problem with the WL transmissions is that they never had a drain plug in the case, if you wanted to change the oil, flush the case, and refill it you were stuck using some kind of suction pump and a tube, a real pita!

I was going to make a remark about my tranny being one of those 8-a-day assemblies, maybe #1 on a Monday morning or #8 on a Friday afternoon. But, like I said, it was probably my own damn fault, chalk it up as an expensive lesson.

I'll always remember something Tom Cotten told me once; "clean oil is better than dirty oil, dirty oil is better than no oil", truer words were never spoken!

mike
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Pa

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Post Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:07 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

The lack of a drain plug is an issue with 45 transmissions. I don't understand why the MoCo didn't incorporate one. I use a turkey baster with a small plastic hose connected to it, to suck the lube out. Got to have the lube pretty well mixed before draining it this way, or it don't remove much of the crap. Even this method can't remove all of the spent lube. The hose hangs up on the internals. I thought about making a special bottom mounting stud, which would be hollowed out, and capped. Since all three stud holes, go completely through, into the case interior, the lowest one, and easiest to access one, should be the one replaced with the modified drain stud. The stud would also have to be longer, in order to accomodate the nut and the cap. Pa
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George Greer

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Post Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:00 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa,

I thought of that too....but I recall on a previous post, (previous server) that modifying the mounting stud to be a drain was a bad idea, because they are not the strongest link in the trannie mounting.

What's the opinion now??

Is the bolt strong enough to do mod it? The hole would not have to be huge to accomplish this mod....

Mabey a # 21 drill bit?

George

PS..keep this going.
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100incscoot

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Post Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

it was just a thought mike a lot of guys don't know or understand
on the drain hole in a 45 stud
i have never seen a 45 trans that broke any studs and if they did i bet it was from being loose
hell a 45 barely has enough power to get to keep up with its own shadow
i dont think there would be a issue as long as the hole wasnt too big
and a set scew could be used to plug it
if you really felt worried you could make a special stud out of more high tech steel then was used back in the day
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Pa

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Post Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

I'm with Mike on the drain stud. New materials would be more than satifactory. I wouldn't modify an existing stud. I would make a new one. The stud would need to be longer just to accomodate both the nut and the cap. Pa
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Pa

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Post Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:41 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Speaking of studs, I'll be installing the studs in my WLA tranny tomorrow. I will also use a sealant on the threads when I do. Pa
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