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WLA Trans In Progress

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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:45 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

That is a cool chain guard ! Pa
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:49 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

RUBONE wrote:Pa,
Don't forget that the chain oiler was not stock on most 45s. It was on '42 WLAs, WLCs, and on Servi-cars but was optional on all others. Rarely found on a standard 45, so don't sweat it too much! :wink:
Robbie


Yeah but on this one....there was one. :wink:
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

The next two photographs below are of the 2446-41 clutch pushrod assembly. First photograph is the complete clutch pushrod assembly. The second photograph is how to inject the grease into the thrust fulcrum / bearing end of the clutch pushrod assembly.

Image

Image
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:52 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Well...........the soaking of the 13/16" / 2461-42 and the 9/16" / 2461-42 clutch pushrod oil seals, in the automotive automatic transmission sealer, has worked, and has softened them up, putting back some of the flexibility back into them. Now we can go ahead and install the 2461-41D clutch pushrod oil seal parts, along with the 2461-41B pushrod guide spring ring. Install in the following order.....9/16” / 2461-42 pushrod oil seal, 2461-42B pushrod guide [ pointed end facing out ], 2459-42 pushrod oil seal spring, 0208 pushrod plain washer, 13/16” / 2461-42 pushrod oil seal, 2462-42 oil seal retainer, and last, the 2461-41B pushrod guide spring ring. Before installing these parts, lightly grease them all, especially the rubber seals. Lightly grease the inside diameter of the clutch gear also. Installation of the 2461-41B pushrod guide spring ring is a bit tricky and takes both hands to accomplish the task. Since all of the parts are under tension from the 2459-42 oil seal spring, seating the 2461-41B pushrod guide spring ring, while simultaneously keeping the 2461-41D clutch pushrod oil seal parts compressed inside of the clutch gear bore, installation of the 2461-41B pushrod guide spring ring, may take you several attempts, before you get it seated and locked into the groove, in the outer edge of the clutch gears bore. I have not yet found a quick way of installing these components. I use needle nosed pliers to grip the turned in ears on the 2461-41B pushrod guide spring ring, and to compress it. At the same time, I use one of my fingers, positioned on the inside of the compressed pushrod guide spring ring, to put force on, collapse, and hold, the pushrod oil seal parts, beyond the pushrod guide spring ring groove, in the clutch gears bore. I don’t believe I have ever gotten the pushrod guide spring ring in, in one attempt, ever, in the past. I didn’t this time either. LOL Always make sure the pushrod guide spring is completely seated in its clutch gear groove !! The first photograph below, show the parts components I just talked about. The second photograph below, show these parts components, installed into the clutch gears bore.

Image

Image
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:07 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Installing the 2446-41 clutch pushrod assembly.......Before we install the clutch pushrod assembly, we need to make sure the clutch pushrod oil seal parts bores are aligned with each other. Look through the bores, via the face of the clutch gear. It is not abnormal for the bores, of all of the clutch pushrod oil seal parts, to be misaligned a small amount. If they are, use a small diameter Phillips head screw driver to align them. Aligned bores make it much easier to install the clutch pushrod assembly. Once satisfied with the bore alignments, lightly grease the complete rod of the pushrod assembly. The lube will aid in installation. Next...insert the rod of the clutch pushrod assembly, into the mainshaft, via the sprocket cover side of the transmission. The rod of the clutch pushrod assembly is tapered a small amount, on the leading end of it. This small tapered end, will help guide the rod, through all of the clutch pushrod oil seal parts. You will feel resistance when the rod of the clutch pushrod assembly comes in contact with the first rubber seal bore. This resistance is what creates a seal around the rod of the clutch pushrod. I use a soft rubber mallet to drive the clutch pushrod assemblies rod, through this rubber seal, and the rest of the way through the second and last rubber seal, untill the tip of the clutch pushrod assemblies rod, exits the clutch gear. Fully installed, the fulcrum / bearing, of the clutch pushrod assembly, will be fully within the bore in the sprocket cover. Lightly grease the face, of the thrust fulcrum / bearing, of the clutch pushrod assembly, once installed.

Image

Image
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:57 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Next....I will install the 2076-41A starter crank arm. I will be installing the 2426-41 clutch release lever after this. That is....as soon as I paint it olive drab green. Yeah... another small glitch. My nos narrow lever is parkerized but the early 42WLA type III was painted. I'll try to get it painted tomorrow and install it. We are really on the down hill slope with this build now. :D On another note....I have an nos chain oiler on its way to me. :D If I can get away with installing the clamp now, I will do so. Pa
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FlatHeadSix

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:22 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Scoot
I knew your factory photo was a WR, I've seen it before. I was just teasing Pa about the "factory" pipe, I was going to say something about the shorty chain guard too but I left it out.

When I was doing one of my WLs a while back I liked the looks of the cad plated clutch lever, like the one in your photo, so I plated one just like it. The AMCA judges didn't think it looked as good as I did. I anodized the cad off of it and through it in the parkerizing tank, doesn't look as good now but it doesn't lose any points either. Oh well.

Pa,
similar to the glycerine trick for the paper gaskets, you should soften that hard 60 year old rubber for the rod seals if you are using the surplus ordnance seal kit. I've found that Kroil will bring them back to life, I put them in a shot glass with a heavy washer on top of them to keep them submerged for an hour or so. If you don't have any Kroil I've also softened them with DOT 5 silicone brake fluid but it takes days of submersion instead of hours, they do seal much better after the "treatment". I will add your Automatic Transmission fluid trick to my list and try it on my next build.

mike
Last edited by FlatHeadSix on Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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100incscoot

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:39 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

muratic acid takes the cad off in about 5 minutes down to the metal
but do not breathe the fumes from this process
from what i understand its deadly cianide gas [ok i can't spell it but you know what i mean]
i have a process that i use to restore ride control side plates to keep the cad on the upper bushings and get it off the plates that i use the acid for
it works perfect
go to any amca show and see how many of the upper bushings are painted
none i mean none were painted from the factory
most you see out there will be and i don't think they get pointed for them either
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FlatHeadSix

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

cyanide will kill you no matter how you spell it!, just ask all those people from Jonestown a few years back. Oh, that's right, you can't ask them, they're all dead.

I just hung it in my plating tank and reversed the leads, it comes off as fast as it goes on. Cad is much easier than chrome, very low amp operation, quick and easy. I did give it a quick bead blast and a short pickle in the acid tank, parkerizing will absolutely not work, or look good, unless you have a bare clean ferrous (plain old iron) surface.

I spent most of the day today cleaning 2 sets of VL spokes, going to cad plate them tomorrow. It takes longer to string them up on the copper wire than it does to plate them.

mike
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Pa

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Post Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:48 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa,
similar to the glycerine trick for the paper gaskets, you should soften that hard 60 year old rubber for the rod seals if you are using the surplus ordnance seal kit. I've found that Kroil will bring them back to life, I put them in a shot glass with a heavy washer on top of them to keep them submerged for an hour or so. If you don't have any Kroil I've also softened them with DOT 5 silicone brake fluid but it takes days of submersion instead of hours, they do seal much better after the "treatment". I will add your Automatic Transmission fluid trick to my list and try it on my next build.

mike[/quote]


Thanks Mike ! Yep !! I am using only NOS parts on this build. 99% are military surplus parts. I put your softening info away for future reference as well. The trans goop I used is thick as STP. The seals could not float in it. Stop Leak actually makes the stuff. I was pretty impressed with it.
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100incscoot

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:37 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Kurt wrote:Hold on.....I've just gotta do this.....this is for you scoot.......... :lol:

Piece of shit NOS garbage.....never fit like they should.
You'd think that they if they make enough they would go the extra step to get it right.
This is a perfect example why I NEVER use NOS crap.
Probably all made by a Taiwanese or Indian machinist at the factory.
Every part I get I have to spend hours to make fit and re-machine.
I just don't get it.....how much more effort to make it right.
All NOS stuff is crap......I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
Junk.....just plain junk.


LOL

You can remove this Pa......just pokin fun at scoot for the last 7 years of him saying how good his stuff is compared to repro's....... not trying to start a pissing contest....just thought the timing was right for my being quiet and having to read his posts all these years...... :lol:

Laugh sc :lol: :lol: t.......... :P


never saw this till now
#1 its not my stuff HD makes it all i just prefer to use it
#2 anyone who has had anything to do with nos parts knows there are a lot of nos parts out there that are still nos because they have a issue with them
they get pulled off the shelf a guy realises the problem and puts them on the back of the shelf
#3 that race was made undersize for a reason
so you can align hone the 2 races in the case to each other
most likly at the factory if you don't have a sunnen hone
which without one your really doing back yard or field work
one last thing not all repop parts are crap just 95% of the ones iv'e found are
try tom fabers bars now that man knows how to and also cares to do something correct when he does it
try a pro clutch in your big twin
Last edited by 100incscoot on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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100incscoot

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:52 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

paul a old mechanic taght me a trick many yrs ago
instead of grease i use vasoline for rollers
it melts down and gets off the bearings rather fast and lets the oil get to them
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Pa

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:48 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Vasoline...now that is a good idea !

About the undersized race. The race I used was in mil spec packaging. Part number was the same as all race part numbers for a 45. Out on the field, the motorpool didn't have possession of line hones or line lapping transmission tooling. They did have line lapping tooling for the engine cases though. There is no listing for a military transmission line lapping or honing tool for the 45. There is no Harley Davidson dealership line lapping or honing tool for the 45. Not one repair manual, civilian nor military, suggests to line lap or hone the two races inline. Most service manuals explain race replacement. After race replacement, they instruct how to fit bearings and assemble the rest of the transmission components. While instructing engine bearing race replacement, they all instruct line lapping. Since no such instruction is given for the 45 transmission, one must ask why. I asked why. This is what I came up with. Side covers are not doweled to cases. Any misalignment in case race to side cover race, is taken out by the huge clutch gear bushing tolerance, where the mainshaft runs inside the clutch gear. There is no need to line them up any better than what they already are, that is, unless you need to re machine the case because of repairs. Pa
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Pa

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:53 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

OK.........George.......... I got the jist of the chain oiler down pat now. I can go ahead and install the 3580-41 clip under the starter crank spring stud. The clip that is on the nos 3575-41A chain oiler pipe is part number 3580-41B. This clip, mounts to the tap hole in the sprocket cover, where the rear chain guard mounts. Mounting the 3580-41 clip will not cause a problem with installing the chain oiler pipe at a later date. It only directs the drip end of the oiler pipe. THANK YOU MR. BRUCE PALMER !!!!! Bruce, being very gracious, called me direct, to explain the chain oiler mounting. So.....though I now have an nos 3580-41 clip on its way to me, I will have to wait on it to correct my early 42 WLA type III transmission build. I also ran across one more little tiny glitch. When I removed my nos top cover from its sealed packaging, I found that the cad plating had aged considerably. It has black discolored areas all over it. I have put to much effort in putting this transmission together, to use the cover in this state of condition. It must be as it would have come from the factory. The cover will go out for re cad plating. No biggy though, it was the last part I was going to install anyhow. :lol: Pa
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100incscoot

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:25 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

as i said paul
most likely at the factory if you don't have a sunnen hone
which without one your really doing back yard or field work
you can't speculate on what parts left the factories stock as in house parts compared to field use parts
there was a difference no doubt
how many times do you really think a reamer was ever used at the hd factory?
thats a field tool at best and far from accurate at that
another one was the lap used on races and rods
yet they are constantly mentioned in every manual
i took apart a rebuilt small block chevy one time straight from the gm factory it had 1 piston .040 over the rest were .030 over
also my uncle had a 53 chevy pick up that came from the factory with a 52 grill i may not be remembering the yrs exactly correct but i know it had a 1 yr earlier grill
i took apart a nos shovel motor one time that had never even been out of the crate till i opened it
it had a rattle in it
inside the breather valve was a hose clamp
how the heck that got there is no for me to even try to guess
mistakes do happen
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Pa

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Can't speak for the factory but I can vouch for the dealerships and motorpools. That engine with the oversize piston in it was not uncommon. Those mistakes happened all the time. My guess is, at least one out of every ten inspected, may have ended up somewhat that way. My main point about a 45 transmission case is this. They are not matched case and cover sets. If you pull a cover of, it wll go back on a little bit differently. The lack of dowels causes this. Though they have spicots at the large radius and on one stud, the large spicot radius is totally inaccurate. Not only this, the one stud is a threaded stud. A thread never goes back in the same position it started out in. The best the 45 case and cover registers can get repeditive at, is .005" plus or minus, over the 360 degree circumference, of the one mounting stud, with the spicot on it. The rest of the studs rely solely on their drilled and tapped locations. No drilled and tapped location is as accurate as a dowel. Say for example...a 45 transmission case is line lapped or bored, as a set. The next person to get the set, will break it open and set mainshaft endplay on it. He will follow the sequence of assembly, as I have set forth in this topic, and continue to remove and assemble the cover to the case, over and over and over again, untill he has the transmission specs all set. Each time he split the cover from the case, and each time he assembled the cover to the case, the bores aligned a little bit differently. No two times, did the two parts mate in exact alignment. Without dowels, they can't. And yes...all the manuals mention line lapping when doing engine bearing race replacement. None mention it when doing 45 transmission race replacement. .002" is a lot of clearance, for factory specs at the mainshaft, to clutch gear bushing fit, for such a small shaft and bore size. .001" would be at the maximum clearance, in other small sized diameter clearance applications. Why would the factory engineers suggest .002" on the 45 mainshaft to clutch gear bushing then ? Because .002" is perfect for a support alone shaft end. It is also perfect for gear pitch specs used. It is also perfect for misaligned opposing bearing races, due to the lack of doweling the side cover to the case. No doubt.... line lapping and or honing, would be absolutely neccessary, if the mainshaft to clutch gear, were needle rollers, instead of a high clearance bushing fit. But....They are not needle bearings there. They are bushed together. The clutch gear itself is not supported at all by the mainshaft. It relies solely upon the rollers in the main clutch gear race. The length of those rollers are the clutch gear support. As with the sprocket side of the mainshaft. The mainshaft is not supported at all by the clutch gear. Yes...it is stabilized by the clutch gear, but it is not supported by the clutch gear. Both the clutch gear and the mainshaft, are independently supported by their own bearings. The forces put on the drive sprocket gear, are relying totally on the sprocket covers mainshaft rollers. to support that force. The length of of those rollers are that support. The 45 transmission cluch gear and the 45 mainshaft, do align with each other, to the extent of neccessary alignment, for the benefit of the countershafts opposing gears. They need not be on the exact same centerline.
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George Greer

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa.

Cool that Bruce called ya direct! Don't see much of him here.

I did find another photo showing the clip in place.

In the Army TM on removing the trannie, there's a clear photo showing the clip in place on the stud.

I quess that this is one of my pet peeve's about the WLA, because I had such a problem finding information on the correct routing of the chain oiler.

Another one is the placement of the brake cable oiler's location (that's another issue that Chris Haynes helped me resolve with super photo!!).

George
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Pa

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Post Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:11 pm

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

But that is what makes it a challenge George. Getting it right ! All the people knew how to do it back then. They didn't see no purpose in mentioning it in the manuals. Guess they figured that was common knowledge at the time. So was hewning a square barn beam out of a fallen tree with an axe though :wink:
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milwaukee belle

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Post Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:08 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa !
keep'on this good work !
FrenchieS are following you step by step on other forums !!!!!! :wink:
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FlatHeadSix

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Post Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:28 am

Re: WLA Trans In Progress

Pa wrote: They didn't see no purpose in mentioning it in the manuals. Guess they figured that was common knowledge at the time. :wink:


Hell Pa, before 1940 there wasn't even a service manual to mention it in! Did you ever wonder why the first complete and comprehensive Service Manuals that the motor company ever published appeared at the same time the WLA did? Before the war the best material that an owner or dealer mechanic had was the Rider's Handbook (which was actually pretty good, kind of like a condensed shop manual). The MoCo would occasionally issue a Shop Dope, if they felt like it, but it was up to the dealers to keep track of them, owners were lucky if they got the information.

When the MoCo got the contract to build bikes for the Army one of the contract specifications, requirements, was to produce both a service manual and a complete spare parts list for all equipment they provided to the government, complete with good illustrations of the parts and assemblies, and photos of critical repair operations.The Army gave the books a 9- or 10- TM (technical manual) number, and distributed them to where they were needed. Thanks to the war horses the MoCo finally started producing a useable service manual and a decent spare parts book.

mike
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