Radio Generator Parts

While sorting out generator parts we always find odd stuff.
Maybe someone can shed some light on these various items:


Notice the left one without the keyway??


?


Early and late version?


Just curious what changed in 1944?
(the other parts are all fan related I think)


?

René, Neat stuff, I'm just getting interested in radio generator stuff. I've seen the cutaway shroud once, you're probably right, it may be an early version.. The '44 end piece is different in that it has the milled vent holes, and is for the earlier version of the radio generator that has no Fan. I just recently picked up one of these generators and have been testing it. It's a real hot rod. I've plans to use it one of these days on my knucklehead. With that, I can run a 12 volt, 150 watt halogen bulb, no sweat. By the way, these radio generators make great 12 volt generators just as they are, no modifications necessary. Just hook up a 12 volt regulator to them, as long as it has current regulation. They will easily crank out 15 or more amps at 12 volts @ 2000 engine rpm. And the Fan version will do the same, I suspect, but be able to sustain it over long periods because of the enhanced cooling. I"ve got parts of a Fan version, but need a few pieces to make it work.
DD

Frankenstein------ I happen to have a perfect aircooled gen. It came with a '59 police FL I have since sold. As I recall it is model 58R. It is 6 volt. Are you saying that simply by changing the regulator it will provide 12 volts? If that could be done I could use it on a U I'm building right now.

Crazy Eddie, That's exactly what I'm saying. On any 2 brush it's just that easy. I want to get the fan cooled unit I have running so I can take some measurements on the test bench, but it will work and it should put out half again as much as an 32E. You should have the ratcheting oil slinger drive gear to use on the "U", but in a pinch, I'd try it with a regular gear. Frankenstein has run for years with no gear at all to remove oil mist from the breather exhaust with no ill effects.
By the way, you should have a current/voltage regulator on the fan cooled unit, if you don't, then check current draw when everything's on to be sure current draw from the generator stays below say, 15 amps just to be safe. I think the fan generator is rated for 18 amps, don't have the book in front of me.
Good luck,
DD

Frankenstein---- That is great news. It does have the ratcheting gear/ clutch, but is setup for an FL not a flathead. The gear is pinned on--- I ordered and received a gear and slinger designed for the 32E ( the only gear I could find) , but it won't work on the 58R. The armature shaft end is totally different than the usual splined type. But my question is---- if the 2-brush generators are the same, 6-volt and 12 volt, why did HD change the generator model numbers? What's the difference between a model 61 (6 volt) and a model 65?

O.K, you asked for it! Basically the major difference in a model 61 and a 65 generator is the size wire used in armature windings and how the fields are connected. The 6 volt versions use heavier gauge wire than the 12 volt. In the armature, this allows more turns per winding, which makes the voltage higher at any particular speed of rotation. So, according to electrical theory, a 65 might reach 12 volts at a speed of 600 rpm, a 61 might not make 12 volts until say, 1200 rpm. Those are just educated guesses on voltages and speeds, but probably aren't too far off. For the happy go lucky guy who's twisting the wick, your 61 generator is almost always going to be spinning fast enough to make at least 12 volts and do all the stuff you want electricity to do.
About Fields: They're just electromagnets, wire wrapped around a piece of iron. the more turns around the iron, the stronger the magnet. In a generator, there is a maximum reached where more windings or more current through them, just won't do any good. It's just wasted, the magnet doesn't get proportionally stronger. When H-D made the 61 into the 65, the doubled the voltage, and connected the field windings in series, so that each winding would see the 6 volts it had been originally designed for. An easy, quick, fix.
On the older models like the fan generator, the fields appear to be designed a little differently, so series connections do not give maximum generator output. With the 32E2R I've experimented with, I got the best results leaving the fields connected as they were in stock 6 volt mode. I'm thinking that the fan version will have the same results. The components appear to be similar. Let me make this point clear, it WILL NOT hurt the fields to apply 12 volts to them, it might not be the optimum configuration for 12 volt operation, but it sure beats rewinding your own fields with about 2 thousand feet of very small wire, in a very precise pattern.
One last comment and I'll shut up. My current thinking on 6 volt and 12 volt H-D generators is that a 6 volt generator may be a superior generator for all around use, especially for a tinkerer like me. The 6 volt armature has heavier gauge wire in the windings than the 12 volt model. Personally, I've burned up 3 or 4 65A armatures in the last 15 years, and Zero 32E 6 volt armatures. Now, it's my own fault because I'm building my own electronic voltage regulators,and I tend to play around with voltages, battery types, charging rates, etc, etc. A 65A armature is designed to handle a max of 10 amps output, period. It was also designed to start making 12 volts at a much lower rpm than H-D's 6 volt armatures. The result, they can't take the heat,and burn out if slightly overstressed.
The 6 volt armatures have heavier windings and create less heat from the current passed through them, making them, in my eye, more robust. and harder for me to burn out
The bottom line, if you keep your generator amperage output below what H-D rated them at, you're going to be o.k., no matter what voltage you run them at. If you're eying 150 watt quartz headlights so you can SEE at night, like me, I'm thinking you're better off with a 6 volt generator, that takes a few more revs before it starts making 12 volts, but can "take the heat" , so to speak.
DD

Oh, by the way, Crazy Eddie, all of this applies to everyone's fan generator but yours. Yours is obviously no good and not suitable.. However, I'll take pity on you and swap a stack of old beatup horseshoe oil tanks (4), for that worthless generator, just 'cause I'm a nice guy
If you insist on using the genny anyway, keep asking around for the proper drive gear, someone here may have one stashed. If not, don't be afraid to try the OHV drive gear without the slinger, It might work out fine. At least, you should try it so I'll know if it works...
DD

Ha!! Thanks for offering to take it off my hands!! I didn't know how I was going to get rid of it! This is truly amazing to me.... in 35 years working on early HD's I never heard this before. I may be willing to trade something for it. I could use a set of aluminum UL heads?!! Incidentally, if I was to use this generator for 12 volt, do you know the part number of the associated regulator to go with? BTW, thank you very much for the information. I've been to your website and appreciate the innovative thinking in your builds.

Hey, Crazy Eddie, I looked through the 58-68 parts book and only found one 12 volt regulator listed. It doesn't appear to do both current and voltage regulation, so apparently H-D didn't worry about it. I'd go with the standard regulator, and make a check on what current your system is drawing. Just put an ammeter in the output line from the generator and see if it draws in excess of 20 amps. I checked on the fan generator specs in the manual this am, and that's what H-D lists as max output for it.
Have Fun.
On those heads, sorry, all I've got is Ted repops, which by the way, my machinist says are made of pretty crappy alloy. (what's new) .
DD

[Pa]

That is strange Doc. Kurt produces those heads and I have heard nothing but praise for them. Guess a defective one can get passed the controls though. Pa

Pa,
I have a set of Ander's heads and cylinders on a 46UL that I've never had any problem with. Been together for a number of years, maybe 6,7,8? I remember when I installed the heads the aluminum seemed a little soft though. Of course, every HD I had (10) up to that point had cast iron heads so I had nothing to compare them with!!! Frankenstein----very intriguing about the generator. I will do as you suggest, install standard 12v regulator and test with ammeter. Just realized that you said Kurt, Pa. I did not know 2 companies are producing these heads now. Does Kurt make cylinders also?

Actually, the cylinder heads I sell have been in production for over 10 years. We have the UL, & #5 & #6--45 model heads. We did a limited run of custom pop-up heads for use with K model pistons. We're working on WR heads......still.....someday they'll be ready.

S&S is suppose to be redoing the heads like Anders did when he was making them from what I've been told, but if they are the same, they are done with a pressure mold if I remember correctly. Problem is.....they don't look like the original sand cast heads....they are smooth and have a completely different texture and look. Nice for a custom, but not for a restoration.

S&S will be doing the UL cylinders.

Kurt

Kurt,
Not to hijack this topic, but....... What company do you represent? I have been out of touch for a few years, but am now building a 42U. What compression are your heads on a 74? What size/reach sparkplug thread? What happened to Anders?

Wow.......you have been out of touch. I own 45" Parts Depot which is located in Holland and Flatland Motorcycle Company which is located in Warren, Ohio.

Anders sold his company in I believe 2005 to a company in Louisiana and after some issues within that company which I am not the one to elaborate on, was then sold to S&S last year. Last I heard Anders was driving a bus and still playing the Blues in Sweden.

You can click on the link on my profile to visit my website.

I don't have the UL heads listed on the 45" Parts Depot site, but if you shoot me an e-mail, I'll set you up. They're designed after the high compression heads with original 18MM plugs. When our new site 4U Motorcycles is up, I'll have them on there.

Kurt

Hi Kurt, I didn't mean to bad mouth your heads, I was repeating an off the cuff remark by the fellow who milled them down for me, as the combustion chambers were quite large. I had to take off .120 to get them down to match my old original H-D head for chamber size. His comment was that something to the effect that the alloy wasn't very "pure" or terms to that effect. intimating that perhaps scrap of unknown origin was added to the pour. In honesty, I've only used this fellow once, as he had the machine to do the job. He does alot of stock car motor work and seemed knowledgeable, if talkative, in my 2 contacts with him. It's possible Ted's loosely copied your design and sent it offshore. How do you do the sparkplug insert. is it steel or bronze, and does it have a star type shape to the exterior as the originals do? As an aside, they came wrapped in cardboard boxes of obvious offshore manufacture, you know how Chinese cardboard looks.
DD

No problem DD. Sometimes I think just because it comes from V-Twin, people are of the mindset that it's going to be crap. A lot of items he carries are from good manufacturers,.....I'm not defending Tedd because he has just as much crap as he has good stuff.

The inserts are steel as original. There are I believe three different heads for the U models. We patterned ours off the high compression heads we had as samples. Maybe yours was already milled and he didn't know what the original chamber cc'd at so just assumed the new ones were wrong.......just speculating.

Kurt

i have found this :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Motorcy ... 065910074&