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Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

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Dusty-Dave

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Post Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:48 pm

Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

I need to design piston oil sprayers for the supercharged fuel Indian i am building. I know this has been discussed some before but I'm not finding any design info in the archives. So if anyone with experience or information sources would jump in please. I really don't want to reinvent the wheel.
Dusty
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woody

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Post Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:05 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

I based mine on the instructions in the Victory books and used small carburetor jets for squirters. If I was going to do it again, I would look into adapting the squirters used in Twin Cams.
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Dusty-Dave

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Post Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:10 am

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

That makes sense to me I'll just get a set of Harley Twin Cam squirters. At $9 a piece sounds way easier than re inventing the wheel. Suppose I gotta start deciding how much the oil pump outta displace and what pressure to relieve it at.
Dusty
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Frankenstein

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Post Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

Dusty, at the end of this lengthily site is the info on the squirters I used. http://dicklinn.webs.com/ I used a .063" hole in the squirter itself, determined by measuring the hole used in K cylinders, and verified by open air testing. I was hoping for a stream that would reach the bottom of the piston at TDC. I've since wondered if windage from rapid piston movement will get any kind of stream to its destination, regardless of oil pressure. at the time, I felt that 20PSI was a minimum pressure for that size orifice. Good luck on the project.
Dick
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Dusty-Dave

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Post Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:30 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

Frankenstein wrote: at the time, I felt that 20PSI was a minimum pressure for that size orifice. Good luck on the project.
Dick

The Harley squirters are checked to not squirt below 12 psi. so you are probably spot on about 20 psi. which leaves me with a bit of a problem. I had planed to part off a gear rotor pump to displace around the same per revolution (plus 10%) as the best Indian pump which will give very low oil pressure and adding an orifice to the engine to get the pressure up gives the same quantity of oil regardless of speed . What do you think of using the sized feed pump and supplying the squirters off the return pump before a 20 psi relief that dumps into the tank.
Dusty
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woody

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Post Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:58 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

I am using a gerotor pump from Calas HP in Sweden. It runs around 20-25 psi hot at highway speeds with the squirters on and 30-35 psi with squirters off. My testing matches fairly close with Frankenstein's numbers. I do not know anything about Indian return pumps, but the HD return pumps a lot of air in with the oil and I have always thought that the aerated oil would not work well for squirters although I have not actually tested this theory. A gerotor pump should put out enough volume to run your squirters from the pressure side.
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GuS

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Post Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

Dusty. By adding a 20 psi relief (valve) at the return, you will ensure the minimum of 20 psi to the squirters, and you will also ensure the return pump will also work against a min 20 of psi wheras before it had only the friction loss in the return line to work against. How will this affect the return capacity?
Will you risk lower return capacity, more oil in the camchest/crankcase, increased drag and less HP?
GuS
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Frankenstein

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Post Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:33 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

I'm thinking that the harley pumps so much air with the oil due to the oil being returned with breather air from the flywheel chamber. As I recall, the old BSA Goldstars gave a steady stream till they ran out of oil in the sump, a situation I suspect similar to the Indian. So, you'd still get a interrupted flow from the return, but it might still be useful. More like hit and miss, rather than aerated spray. Guess you'd have to try and find out. Good luck.
Dick
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Dusty-Dave

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Post Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:53 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

I had assumed that it would need a liquid separator. Basically a small tank with the feed to the squirters coming off the bottom. Since I an making the pumps I can make the return pump as large as required. The only problem is deciding what size is required. Course the best solution would be three pumps a volume correct feed a pressure regulated squirter feed and a volume correct return but I sure don't want to do that. Gives me a headache just thinking about machining the housing for a triple rotor pump and all that plumbing.
Dusty
Vapor-Liquid_Separator.png
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Frankenstein

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Post Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:43 am

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

Talk about complex! But I'm not getting something, it looks like the oil from the bottom of the tank is at atmospheric pressure due to the venting at top of the tank?
Yes, the three pump solution would be elegant, Come on, don't be a coward :)
Dick
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Dusty-Dave

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Post Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:52 pm

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

Frankenstein wrote:Talk about complex! But I'm not getting something, it looks like the oil from the bottom of the tank is at atmospheric pressure due to the venting at top of the tank?
Yes, the three pump solution would be elegant, Come on, don't be a coward :)
Dick

It would just be a short piece of larger pipe with the relief valve above it so that the tank is pressurized . Maybe on the three pumps still playing with ideas clean cool oil does sound better. How much hotter does the oil run in the ones that you have the squirters in? All my Scouts never get the oil hot enough that you can't lay a hand on the tank.
Dusty
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Frankenstein

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Post Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:46 am

Re: Need Info on designing a piston oiler jet

The Tanks are too hot to hold your hand on, with the stock pumps, etc, tank was much like the scouts, warm, but not painful.
I'm moving a lot more oil, thus heat, than stock, about a quart/min. I have a Ford pwr steering cooler and oil filter in the feed line to engine to cool oil prior to entry to engine. Sporty setup allows access to oil after feed pump and prior to entry to engine. The extra oil and/or extra oil definitely keep pistons cooler. Discoloration on underside of pistons definitely minimized vs stock. Don't know if you know Bruce Argetsinger, "Rubber Ducky", but we've had discussions as to how much full flow to pinion and overall oil quantity are responsible for improved piston conditions. I mention him because he's also involved with building scout parts for racing and is interested in this topic.
Dick

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