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Electronic Chief

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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:10 am

Electronic Chief

Does anyone know of an electronic ignition that is auto advance for a Chief?. I've seen the ignitor based ignitions, but an looking for an ignition that will do it all, separate "black box" OK. If it has a vacuum retard (read that VOES) that's even better.

I'm about to re-equip a running chief with a late model CV carb, elec ign, and a 12 volt system. I read somewhere about a new alternator replacement for the autolite generator? Any experience with these?...if not that then the CE generator w/regulator.

Any experience to draw from out there?....jb
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Cotten

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Posts: 2676

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:17 pm

JB!
Only the ignition in Stark's catalog is not just a simple Hall-effect pickup, although I don't have a copy handy to see if it has an advance. Otherwise they may be a Pertronix unit http://www.pertronix.com/ that could be adapted.

The generator-sized alternator you are thinking of was the Alton from France. It was supposed to hit the market at about $420, and that is probably why I haven't heard of anyone using one yet.

The CE unit is a tried-and-true HD-style system cut down to fit in the clamp.
With the endmounted regulator model, it doesn't have as many interchangeable parts, but has a feedback protection against overheating the armature, and allows any choice of battery size. It is reasonably priced, and comes with a one-year warranty.
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Cotten

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Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:22 pm

Panic!
There are already two out there that I have installed, one from I.P.E, the other from Stan Jessup. Both are merely pickups that still use the manual advance.
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Wed Dec 25, 2002 12:20 am

Cotten, If I am not mistaken, those use the stock rotor and cap, two items I would just as soon eliminate, as the rotor/cap interface would be a source of corrosion/resistance. Or that is my way of thinking. I'm not sure of the direction of rotation for the autolite distributor, but I suppose I could mount a HI-4 crane and a timing cup if I was tricky enough...the Crane allows for =/- 5 degree timing adjust ment front to rear if I missed it some, or I guess 42degree is within 3 deg of stock HD.....hmmmm.....Dallas we have ignition.....the light bulb sparked....I'll let you know when I check, if the Indian distributor turns CCW I'm in there...and still single fire......jb
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Dusty-Dave

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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Wed Dec 25, 2002 3:48 am

Boogiemanz1
If you are realy into machine work you could take a similar approach to what Butch Baer did to Hatfields 101 http://virtualindian.org/11ignition.htm He machined up a base to fit where the mag went and used the auto advance guts from a Hardly with a Dyna single fire(lenghten the slots a little and it's 42 deg) He even marked the flywheels so that you could set each pickup with a timing light. I might still have some more pics of it that didn't make the mag. It was a 1 kick starter and easily the fastest T manifold Scout I've ever ridden.
Dusty
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Wed Dec 25, 2002 8:10 am

Dusty, I think I read that article earlier today, are you the one that got it to run right?

I haven't been to the shop yet to see what the rotation of the stock distributor is, and what speed it rotates, if at all possible I would run the Crane HI-4 ignition and single fire coil, as I am super familiar with it and it's a tuner's delight. Fully adjustable rate of advance/adjustable rev limiter/ +or- 5 degree rear cylinder timing/ and fires the first piston up on kick start mode.

Cotten gave a major argument for the CE gen/reg (the price and this guy went the extra mile to adapt for Indians) my ony concern is that generators are known for voltage spikes..does the electronic regulator help there?....

Peace to all, later...JB
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Dusty-Dave

Posts: 884

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Wed Dec 25, 2002 6:38 pm

Boogiemanz1:
Yep.
Sounds like it should work I'm not familuar with the Crane. Is the total advance variable? How are the adjustments made? The only thing I would change on Hatfields if it was mine would be to make the pickup plate slightly adjustable from the handle bar controll. Here in the mountians it needed more advance than in Texas and it would be so easy to make it adjust from the handle bar.
I dont think that the CE would have enough ripple to confuse a well designed ignition. Unless apearing origional is a concern Suzuki alternators fine also. Sometime alternators are more trashy than generators. The last batch of Fire Trucks we got had Leese Neville 275 amp externaly rectifyed charging systems and I finally had to bread board a crow bar circuit in the compter power lines to keep the computers alive. Just a zenner diode triping a power transistor to ground about 2 volts above max regulator voltage. Although solid state makes my living don't count on it to be better, it depends on the designer.
Dusty
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Wed Dec 25, 2002 9:02 pm

DD, it is an adjustable "rate" of advance, adjustable rev limit, and adjustable rear cylinder timing plus or minus five degrees controled by trimpots on the unit.

There are also two DIP switches to switch from "all OE points" which means the use of a VOES (Vacuum Operated Electrical Switch)to "race mode"
The other DIP switch controls Kick or electric start. Kick fires the first piston up on single fire mode, and electric does not fire for two RPM to let high compression engines get turning before firing.

A TDC timing LED aids in setup.

Kinda expensive little jewel, but I'm thinking the VOES operation will compensate for different terrain, and allows the timing to be advanced more. If you got into the mountains and needed a lower rate of advance, pop the top and turn the trimpot down a few degrees.

This ignition has made running a 11+ :1 V-twin on the street with pump gas no problem.

The VOES is a switch that enables the unit to retard the timing 7 deg when the manifold vacuum drops.

The dyna S that uses the stock flyweights is one of the best starting ignitions in existance.....next to this.

I'm going to dyno the chief before and after I convert. I really don't expect a significan HP gain, but I think more people would ride these relics if the operation was simplified somewhat...jb
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Wed Dec 25, 2002 9:08 pm

D-D, the maximum advance is adjustable also, with the timing slots.no problemo....if this thing turns the right direction at the correct speed (1/2 crankshaft speed) I'll be in business...jb
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Dusty-Dave

Posts: 884

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:04 am

Boogiemanz1:
If you are realy wanting to go hi-tech check out this site on home brew fuel injection that Panic turned me on to.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
If the next incarnation of the blower bike still isnt what I want I may try one on it since it handles boost and odd fire so well.
Or if you still want CV I have a adapter manifold and SU for a Chief that I bought for a project that never happened.
Dusty
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Thu Dec 26, 2002 7:17 am

Well, of course it couldn't be that easy. The distributor for the Chief turns clock and this is a counter-clock ignition. I'm going to try to build a timing cup for a reverse rotation dual fire ignition, then turn out a distributor, and go from there.

Dave, a bud of mine called megasquirt and talked to the folks there, and they didn't have any at that time, plus, soldering it together, and building a map would be a bitch. I have sold my dynojet dyno, but still can use it,... but an eddy-brake dyno would be required to build the map properly

I appreciate the offer of the carb, but I'm near completion on a manifold adapter for a Kehin CV (latemodel HD) as I have needles and jets for it and am familiar with it.

On your blower bike, a CV would be the ticket. if you decide to use a Kehin, as they are everywhere for cheap, I have the instructions and probably a needle or two for blower operation. I set up a couple of Magnachargers, and bought some extra stuff.
The big thing on a CV and a blower is to set it up to suck thru the carb, and double the slide spring on the carb, and the needle is a very different taper.

Can the air intake for the air pump you are using be modified to run fuel thru it? I remember the installation somewhat, but not the particulars.............jb
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panic

Post Thu Dec 26, 2002 3:45 pm

Rotation doesn't matter - just set the lead for the "other" cylinder. The interval will be the same in either direction.
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Dusty-Dave

Posts: 884

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Thu Dec 26, 2002 5:39 pm

Naw no room between blower and front fender its gota be blow through, trying a pressure box this time.
Panics right the solid state hocas pokus dosen't know which way the triger is rotating just that it should do what the equasions say after the trigger event.
Dusty
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:46 am

Panic, Dave, I was going to build a mirror image timing cup, and rebuild the ignition pickup where the hall effect sensors were mirrored also......but you are saying to spin it backward and just switch the f/r coil leads or even just the plug wires?

PLease let this be true, but is it really that easy?
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:48 am

Also, has anyone ever run an Indian with a wasted spark (stock HD module for instance) type ignition?......thanks.....jb
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panic

Post Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:51 pm

Yes, it's that easy. Reverse the leads to the cylinders, or simply use the #1 position on the box for the #2 cylinder. Only 2 intervals, long & short, doesn't matter how the info gets there.

------------------
Want to put a British 4-speed pre-unit transmission in your H-D 45 solo? Click here.
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Dusty-Dave

Posts: 884

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA

Post Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:03 am

Indian ran wasted spark untill sometime in the twentys.
Dusty
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:46 am

I think that chunk of 4" aluminum laying on the end of my lathe is holding a distributor housing hostage inside it...one night next week I'm gonna set that mutha free..

I know that the shafts in most distributors are made out of some hard stuff, anyone have a material recommendation? I'm going to build the prototype out of some high carbon, tool screaming, round bar I've got, If I build more I'll probably want to have them ground out of the right stuff then heat treated...Damn. I've still got box full of lightened knuckle gearcase gears to have retreated......jb
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Boogiemanz1

Posts: 896

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Bixby,OK, USA

Post Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:50 am

BTW, thank you guys for the info, I guess I was trying to make it too hard......jb
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panic

Post Sat Dec 28, 2002 2:59 pm

They don't have to be that hard if you install roller bearings...
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