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Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:03 pm

Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

I bought an engine from FHP before it was they sold to S&S . The engine still was & is under it warranty time & mileage stated in the warranty. Here the deal ,the engine smoked from day one. I check everything over and over again.

Had no luck getting hold the owner of FHP but ended up contacting S&S because they own FHP now. So I ask them about the warranty on the engine and basically they said too bad ,you are out of luck but they be happy take my engine and go though .But I would have to paid for them to do, man that suck.

So I took the bike over to the local S&S dealer at my cost to find the problem. Will we did the compression test 175 in both cylinders and then the leak down test found it to be leaking into the case. Pull the heads off and guess what we found? Well somebody at FHP didn't check the size of pistons they we're installing which were 0.010 too small for the cylinders and end gap on the rings was 0.025 that she was burning some much oil.

So this really sucks , nobody want to stand up to the warranty so I may never buy another engine from S&S again.
Thanks guys for letting sound off some.

Between a rock and a hard spot.
Steph
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BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:16 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

I am surprised that S&S would not honour the warranty for FHP since buying the company. You would think that such a matter would have been taken care of with the buyout (re: previous warranty claims). Not being able to get a hold of the old FHP? Totally, totally, the norm.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:58 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Yep,
I don't want to bad mouth S&S but you wold think they would stand behind the Warranty.
I paid big bucks for the engine and I have to shell out another $ 1500 or so bucks to fit a problem that should have never happen.

Between a rock and hard spot.
Steph
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

I find it hard to believe that a set of pistons, rings, and gaskets would cost $1,500.00.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:59 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Will $1500 is for the complete job ,finding the problem , fix the problem and installing new parts. I would do it myself but in order that I may someday to get some of my money back,I need to have it document the work of a S&S dealer. So that is why it cost that much.
Between a rock and hard spot.
Steph
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fabercycle

Posts: 195

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:01 am

Location: Cedar Springs Mi USA

Post Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:44 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Lemme see......1500.00 minus the most expensive pistons and rings on the planet -150.00, minus gaskets 30.00 =1320.00.

Labor = 5 hrs max for a handicap guy. x 1320.00 = 264.00 per hour......gee that sounds right.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

You guys can debet all you want about what cost should be.. The point is that the engine was build with the wrong pistons and nobody will stand behind the warranty.

Between a rock and a hard spot.
Steph
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fabercycle

Posts: 195

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:01 am

Location: Cedar Springs Mi USA

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:53 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

How does oil blow by a .025 ring end gap and air don't? Compression check should be very low with that size gap....if you're lucky.

Plus, no company will "inherit" another's warranty.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:15 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Will first the end gap should be no more than .015 .The engine heat up ,the cylinder expands and gap get bigger. The oil rings can't hold back the oil so it get suck into compression chamber and would also lose compression pass the rings into the crankcase,which turn add to blow by,ya see where I'm going here. This is basic engine info you should have learn at engine repair school.

As the for (Plus, no company will "inherit" an other's warranty.) that is not always true .It depends on how much you are willing to paid a lawyer to fight it.

Between a rock and a hard spot.
Steph
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panic

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:08 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

"Will first the end gap should be no more than .015."

Errr... no. Let me guess; this is based on something you read, like .004" per inch of bore diameter? That's for water-cooled engines.
.025" is a little bit loose - for a race engine. For a street bike, this is about what you can expect to get with a new factory motor. That's not the problem.

"The engine heat up ,the cylinder expands and gap get bigger"

No, the ring expands and closes up the clearance. .015" will break the ring if the engine ever runs really hot - like full throttle for 10 seconds.

" This is basic engine info you should have learn at engine repair school."

Exactly what school is that? I've been doing this for 40 years, and never heard that taught.

Pistons .010" under bore size? Absolutely, they screwed up. Unless, of course, they meant "the piston is now .010" smaller than the bore" - due to no oil, no break in, abuse, intake leaks, etc. Which is it?

As to why you would pay $1,500.00 to "to get some of my money back,I need to have it document the work of a S&S dealer":
1. I wouldn't believe it, even if you had a receipt
2. you can make your own receipt - I'll make you one signed by Willie G. - dated July 4th 1776, with his signature - for $10.00.
3. any money you spend on a bike as an investment is, pardon me, foolish.
The idea that something must be worth what it cost you has no basis in fact - look at the housing market. There are houses for sale here for $500,000 that were bought last year for $600,000 - and no buyers, and houses for sale for $500,000 that were bought in 1950 for $10,000 - and no buyers.
It's worth what someone wants to pay you, which is determined by its replacement cost, or what an equivalent is selling for. If no one wants it, it's a boat anchor, you can't eat it or wear it.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:49 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Ok , why would this brand new engine built by (OLD) Flathead Power smoke from day one. Check of oil line , breather line , breather gear timing all checked out.

Removed heads and found both pistons to be so lose of a fit that you could move them back & forward plus side to side .There were vertical line ware marking on the cylinder walls all the way around the cylinder walls. This motor has less then 1000 miles on it . The engine will smoke after warm up & I'm in the northwest avg temp 50 t0 70 deg outside.

I've built couple engines in the pass and none of the piston that were properly fitted for the cylinder every that loose .

I'm not trying start a fight here I'm piss off that the old Flathead power send me this problem engine that should been built right in the begaining.

And the statements you made that I making it investment is bull.This is brand new bike we built from the ground for up a customer not a basket case found in someone basement.

You miss the point altogether no one wants to stand behind their wannanty.
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Kurt

User avatar

Posts: 422

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Tucson Arizona

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:48 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

OK, I know Anders personally and the type of person he is, would not allow this to happen. My question to you is, if it was smoking from the beginning.....when was the beginning? It would have had to be close to three years ago now to be Anders problem. Anything after that would have fallen on FHP in the States......that's a completely different story.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:13 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

There is 1 year warranty that ends this December. The bike was together for road test in June and found that it smoked a bit so did the normal checks. Called Doug at FHP( USA ) said it may just be a vent line on wrong. This was not the only job I was working at time so couldn't spend all the time checking it out. August had time & found out FHP had been bought out by S&S in July.
So I called S&S to see what could be done and they said they call me back but didnt call back until 2nd of October .At that time I was on the road to THE Horse Mags' West Coast Smokeout. But anyway S&S left a message saying sorry can't warranty but would be happy to fix the problem for a price.
I have left messages with this Doug ( the old owner ) but no call backs and I really don't think I'll get one.

You see I have to warranty the stuff I build but I guess nobody else has too.
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

IMO, it's all water under the bridge now, but if you were to pop for the shipping of your motor to S&S, they might have found the problem to be so overwhelmingly wrong, that they would have given you a one-time-freak-of-assembly discount and shipped the motor back to you repaired for less than you think. But, you didn't take them up on their offer, and took it to one of their dealers. But taking the motor to one of their dealers, is not sending it back to S&S. Take things back to the original contractor. When that contractor isn't available and a receiver of the business actually offers to take it back in and fix it for a "price", it's up to the customer, at that crossroads, to take the path he chooses. imo. Sorry for your loss. Hope the motor performs as intended.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:11 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

I would have shipped it back to them but the person I was to talk about it never would return my calls.
Yep, that really worked now didn't it. So if I would have shipped the motor I was told I was to paid for shipping both ways which check out to be $250+ one way.So now I'm $500+ into the engine and they still have to fix it for what price? yea it may have been cheaper but I can stand over the guy who working on the motor face to face. And it may not cost as much as the first estimate anyway.
Just hate all the run around that I'm getting.
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Carl Olsen

Posts: 65

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:42 pm

Location: Aberdeen, SD

Post Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:49 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Ride it and enjoy it, choose your battles, move on with your life and let it go. I can arrange some therapy sessions if you like, my wife has her own practice, I might even be able to talk her into trading Knuckle parts for the bill. Let me know as there is a 3 week back log on appointments.
Hope this helps your situation,
Carl
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:50 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

Rant, rant, rant!
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Let it go!
Last edited by Chris Haynes on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:32 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

OK, let see it all started when I moved from Rapid City,SD when I was 6 to Fife,Wa....

OK, I'm going for ride on shovel and go buy some cheese for wine........Thanks I'm allbetter now........
Steph

PS thank you Chris for showing me the light......
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krazy loop

Posts: 646

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Detroit

Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:32 am

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

I like the old FHP knucklehead engine promotional statement wherein they claim new engines are dyno tested. I wonder what this particular engine put out to "pass" their standards.
New Knuckleheads? Thank, you, Jesus!!
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OutLaw86

Posts: 22

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:16 pm

Re: Problem with warranty for New Knuckle

She Dyno out at 72 hp @ 4600rpm w/ 85 ft.lbs torque the problem I don't anyone looked outside to check the smoke come out of the exhaust. Anyway I put the cylinders & pistons and send them to some I tuss which said the worry pistons were install that cylinders will clean up nicely.

I think what happen is that Doug at FHP had too much going at the time and problemly had someone else helping . So some how the worry pistons were installed. I would to Dyno her again after the new pistons are in just to see if there is any change.

Most of these guy oh this site think I was whining too much about it but I just wonder how they would feel it they just put out $ 10,000 for new engine that wasn't right ?
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