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too much oil

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BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:59 am

Re: too much oil

knucknutz - pm sent. Brent.
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Carl Olsen

Posts: 65

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:42 pm

Location: Aberdeen, SD

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:15 am

Re: too much oil

Have you tried cork pushrod gaskets, sometimes the rubber ones leak. The cork seals are more forgiving and with all the aftermarket parts you do not have the fit and finish of OEM knuckle parts. You can also put 12-15 lbs. air pressure in through your timing plug and squirt soapy water to find your leak in the return system, much like checking for manifold leaks. You will have to turn the engine over so the return holes line up in the breather.
Carl
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat May 03, 2008 10:12 am

Re: too much oil

[quote="BrentCross@Bronko's"]Knucknutz: forgive me if this has been mentioned before but: S&S recommends that you use a 25tooth drive gear (26345-39) on the pump shaft and the mating gear on the pinion shaft ( 26349-54) if your set-up allows for this pinion gear. This will help over-oiling problems on a knuck when running a S&S pump. Maybe though you already have this set-up?quote]

Hey Brent,
Who did you talk to at S&S? I called them yesterday for oil information and tips on my 93" and the tech support guy didn't know anything about how to control oil in a Knuck. Is this printed S&S information?
Thanks,
Chris
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BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Sun May 04, 2008 6:14 am

Re: too much oil

HI Chris:

It is absolutely in S&S printed material. I can't remember offhand where it is but I am sure if you check the instruction sheet for oil pump installation you will find it there. It is available on the S&S website. Please e-mail me if you can't find it and I will search through my notes at work.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sun May 04, 2008 10:29 am

Re: too much oil

BrentCross@Bronko's wrote:HI Chris:

It is absolutely in S&S printed material. I can't remember offhand where it is but I am sure if you check the instruction sheet for oil pump installation you will find it there. It is available on the S&S website. Please e-mail me if you can't find it and I will search through my notes at work.


Does this combination of gearing slow down the pump to avoid gushing oil? What is the purpose of the mixing of gears?
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BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Sun May 04, 2008 2:33 pm

Re: too much oil

You are correct - the different gears cause the pump to turn slower to aid with the over-oiling problem. I have them in my knuckle yet I noticed today when out for a ride that my oil pressure is still too high when hot - something I am going to have to deal with as I work out the bugs with my new ride.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sun May 04, 2008 2:38 pm

Re: too much oil

BrentCross@Bronko's wrote:You are correct - the different gears cause the pump to turn slower to aid with the over-oiling problem. I have them in my knuckle yet I noticed today when out for a ride that my oil pressure is still too high when hot - something I am going to have to deal with as I work out the bugs with my new ride.


I spoke with Carl Olsen yesterday. He recommended plugging the oil line fittings in the timimg gear cover and heads and drilling a .060 hole for reduced oil flow to the top end.
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BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Sun May 04, 2008 3:04 pm

Re: too much oil

Chris: that is also in the S&S literature (plugging the fitting and drilling a .060" hole to reduce oil flow). I didn't do that on mine (was hoping the slower gears would be all that I needed) but I think I am going to have to go this route as well. There is also the option of cutting the oil pressure spring down as well. The latter would be my last resort.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sun May 04, 2008 3:53 pm

Re: too much oil

BrentCross@Bronko's wrote:Chris: that is also in the S&S literature (plugging the fitting and drilling a .060" hole to reduce oil flow). I didn't do that on mine (was hoping the slower gears would be all that I needed) but I think I am going to have to go this route as well. There is also the option of cutting the oil pressure spring down as well. The latter would be my last resort.



I have to do whatever I can to control oil to the top end as I am usung an S&S EVO oil pump
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BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Mon May 05, 2008 4:38 am

Re: too much oil

Chris: FYI

S&S Instruction Sheet #51-1041 "Installation Instructions for S&S Big Twin Oil Pump Kits" has the info we have discussed. Page 13 upper right hand corner (on paper copy - online might be different). The specific reference is Section 9 "Initial Startup and Post-operation Checks - all years". Both the .060 metering hole and the pump gears are discussed. Hope this helps.
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2616

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Mon May 05, 2008 6:18 am

Re: too much oil

Thank you Brent,
I want to try to remove as many bugs as I can before the problems arise.
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fhsmith1

Posts: 200

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Mon May 05, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: too much oil

Chris Haynes
Read the last few posts here on Exon Valdez. Some folks said I was treating the symptom and not the problem but since I restricted the oil it has not been a probem. I put about 200 miles on it this weekend. Still have not washed it though.
F
Last edited by fhsmith1 on Mon May 05, 2008 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fhsmith1

Posts: 200

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Location: Georgia

Post Mon May 05, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: too much oil

Chris Haynes
See the last few posts on "exon valdez". Some said I was treating the symptom and not the problem. But since I restricted the oil it has not been a problem. Rode it about 200 miles this weekend. Still have not washed it though.
F
Last edited by fhsmith1 on Mon May 05, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DICK LEMAY

Posts: 79

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:08 pm

Location: No. Andover, Mass. USA

Post Tue May 06, 2008 10:25 am

Re: too much oil

I also went the route of metering the oil but at each rocker box by pressing in a solid aluminum rod into the the outside end of the stainless steel tubing connector and drilling it out. I don't remember what size though but likely .060. I counterbores the ends to accept the rod. I like the idea of having more than adequate oil pressure throughout the system right up to the problem area.

Dick
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Randall

Posts: 62

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:29 pm

Location: Texas' Big Bend country

Post Tue May 06, 2008 3:06 pm

Re: too much oil

Howdy Folks,

As some of you may remember, my students and I at Presidio High School have been assembling a Knucklehead engine to go in the bobber that we built a couple of years ago. We have finished the bike and I've put just under 1,000 miles on it over the last couple of weeks. I've been planning to post photos and do a complete write-up for y'all but the school firewall is resisting. I just got broadband at my house last week and will try to post photos from there.

In regards to over-oiling the heads with aftermarket cases and late-style pumps: we used S&S Superstock Timken-bearing cases, an S&S 31-6200 billet oil pump for B/T 36-72 driven by a stock Knucklehead drive gear, OEM cam cover set up for end-oiling, and OEM large-port Knuckleheads. The engine displaces 80 cubic inches. I recieved advice from folks on the FHP board and from Al at S&S on setting up the end-oiling for the pinion and the oil feed to the heads. The end-oiling required that we plug an internal oil passage behind the pump and split the crank and head oil circuits. I put a small oil gauge where the overhead line would normally feed from the cam cover and ran the overhead line to the feed hole behind the rear lifter block on the S&S cases. Al suggested that I might want to restrict the overhead line to .060 at the crankcase end as well as at the rockerboxes, so I drilled three brass rivits and inserted them at all three openings of the Y-shaped overhead oil line at installation.

The motor started after two priming kicks, switch on, and varoom! We had to fiddle with the CV Keihin a little, but the bike is running real strong now. We had a small oil seep frm the base of the rear head exhaust valve spring cover, which has since sealed itself up, otherwise, no leaks. The mini oil gauge on the cam cover (I have no idea how accurate it really is) shows 45 pounds of pressure on start-up going to the pinion shaft, rapidly dropping to 10 pounds as the oil warms. I'm running Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50W. There is a little gear whine coming from the cam case but with new cam and generator drive gears I'm not too surprised; I think it will quiet down as things bed in. The carb is still set a little rich, but I think that's best until the motor is completely broken in.

Later --- Randall
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