FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

too much oil

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

<<

knucknutz

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm

Location: clear creek,id

Post Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:09 pm

too much oil

just got knuckle motor goin an after about 5 miles heads started pukin oil, made a big mess. i,m runnin a



























just got knuckle motor in bike an after about 5 miles heads started pukin oil, :cry: i'm runnin a s+s cast pump thats new and i plugged my bango bolts that go in heads and drilled a .063 hole in them like s+s says and ive read about on here. i checked breather it was in time and push rod tubes have new rubber seals and i'm runnin stock drive gears like i've read about not to long ago.i run 38 psi pressure cold 30 psi when it got warmed up at idle.my other motors with iron pumps run 15-20 psi cold and 0-5 psi hot at idle. why not crank the s+s pump down to run pressure that iron pumps run instead of meterin oil to heads which is guessin game,and try to inch pressure up some which would'nt hurt. uncle tedd's has an ajustable thing you put on pressure relive valve that you can dail it to where ever you want, they say,made by someone else,or you could cut spring .has anyone else had this problem even after meterin oil with .060 hole? how much pressure should there be at idle?may be i better put iron pump on,never had this problem before
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:42 am

Puking oil from where? There is a small hole in the tin for a breather. Other than that if they are properly sealed they won't leak. Too many builders simply screw the tins together with sealer and never check to make sure all of the surfaces are mating properly.
Are your cases properly drilled for the Knucklehead vacum system?
<<

knucknutz

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm

Location: clear creek,id

Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:48 am

oil is pukin out vent holes and looked like it was drippin around where front cover mashes into rocker box and i could see oil beading up around some of the screw holes from the pressure and push rod covers where full to. i spent a lot of time makin sure covers fit tite,i ran these heads for years no problem,whats it matter where its pukin from ,its pukin.bike is also smokin bad. cases are std knuckle repleica cases and yes they have the right oil passages, i'm not that stupid to put motor together with wrong cases. i filled lifter blocks with oil on top of lifters and kicked motor over and oil cleared out and i could here sucking sound in blocks.i've put other knuck motors together and never had problems before, only real differance in this motor is bigger s+s pump.motor is std cases,s+s crank - pistons,s+s timing gears with reverse turning timer gears,s+s breather,andrews stock cam,jims .005 over lifters,tedd cylinders,rockers are tedd's,couldn't get a hold of fhp,2000i dyna ign. single fire.could rockers with brass groved bushings in them be lettin oil pass throught to fast,less restriction to hold it back than stock ones would? i ran a pump like this on last motor,which was put together by local ass@^%, and failed
after5000 miles and run pump strait with no plugged and drilled fittings and had no problem returning oil from heads,same heads as now,so i'm lost.














+s+
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:45 pm

So am I.
<<

Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1557

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:52 am

Nutz, What seems abnormal also is the high pressure when hot. The roller bottom end shouldn't hold that much pressure when hot. I'm wondering if there's a blockage or some other reason that the pinion shaft isn't getting its feed properly. I'd look into why there's so much pressure. The regulating valve must be set about 38 psi as that's the reading cold, so it's not causing the problem, I wouldn't think, as hot pressure is below that. Smoking might be all that oil in the heads getting past the valve guides.
Just a thought,
Dr Dick
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:32 am

I hope he finds the problem 'cause i have just built a similar S&S equipped engine. I hope I don't run into this.
<<

Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:15 am

Are you sure you have the right pump? Might be worth a call to S&S tech to see if they have an opinion.
<<

knucknutz

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm

Location: clear creek,id

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:15 am

i'm goin call s+s but if anybody out there is runnin one of these,this is the older cast one they don't make anymore, could you post your pressures when its hot and cold so i could see if the one i'm runnin is screwy. i run one of these on my last motor an it lasted 5000 miles an froze up, pinion bearing failed ,now think i wasnt getting enuff oil, that pump ran 42 psi cold, 36 psi hot,this sucks,i want to ride,i'll let you know what s+s says,thanx
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:29 pm

I have the new EVO type S&S pump on my STD Timken bearing Knucklehead cases.
<<

Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:51 pm

Any pics?
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:36 pm

<<

Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:42 pm

Ouch. A mass of hydra-glyphix.... but No pic.
You gotta go get a camera Chris. Get a 500 buck Nikon and giddy-up. You're known as one of the few participating authorities on early iron. You could be much more effective with words and pictures with your own camera and posting direct pics to post here using ImageShack. Whatcha'waiting for....Christmas? :P
<<

Chris Haynes

Posts: 2634

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:26 pm

My GOD Plumber, I wish I was a friggin' perfect as you. What the F makes you think I don't have a camera? Where do you think I get the pictures I post? I have a thousand dollar Cannon EOS Rebel. A fine piece of imported machinery.
<<

Plumber

Posts: 1536

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:48 pm

Then why on earth then, make people work to see a pic? We still haven't seen your Timken knuckle. Take a pic of a pic if you have to.....but post something.
<<

Limey_Dave

Posts: 202

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:08 pm

Location: Middle England UK

Post Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:18 am

Nothing wrong with that pic,as crisp as a crisp thing. 8)

I can read the stamps on the cases and frame and count the fillets on the welds.

Plumber,maybe it's your eyes,been looking at too many of Ted's catalogs. :lol:
<<

Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1557

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:26 am

I had the same problem as Plumber, not the eyes, it's the web browser. My Firefox didn't like it, opened o.k. in Internet explosion. I believe Plumber is a Mac guy, might be his problem.
Dr Dick :lol:
<<

knucknutz

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm

Location: clear creek,id

Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:29 pm

Re: too much oil

to anybody who's followed this, i called s&s back in july and talked to them for 45 min ,no help at all,they said when you figure out what it is call me back and let me know so i can pass it on. they couldn't tell why i was runnin so high a pressure.to make a long story short,i was going to put stock rebuilt early pan pump i ran for years on it when i found out that it wont fit my std repleica cases because that pocket in case next to drive bushing for lip on idler feed gear aint there,easy fix out of frame,not so easy in without rigth tools,so i put s-s back on and cut by pass oil spring so pressure was 18-cold 12 -hot,heads quit pukin oil.i have cut pressure 2 lbs every ride, about 75 miles each ,last ride i had pressure set at 7-8 pounds cold ,0-1 idle and about 2-3 down the road and plugs still keep comin out black with oil an smokin when hot. i set up vavles with .oo41-.0042,bike has 500 miles on it.my harley ridin was ruined this summer after 3 years buildin motor an 6000-7000 dollars an i can sum the %#*&:^ problem up in one word - AFTERMARKET
<<

panacea

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Location: Mpls. area

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:39 pm

Re: too much oil

Chris,I get a" pic not found" when I click on your link. I'm curious also how my S&S pump can hold 55-60 lbs at start up then slowly drops to 3-5 when hot. I suppose that 20- 50w oil won't move thru the pinion bushing (side oiler) till it thins down with heat. I'm not having any return problems or leaks though. Mike
<<

BrentCross@Bronko's

Posts: 88

Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:10 am

Re: too much oil

Knucknutz: forgive me if this has been mentioned before but: S&S recommends that you use a 25tooth drive gear (26345-39) on the pump shaft and the mating gear on the pinion shaft ( 26349-54) if your set-up allows for this pinion gear. This will help over-oiling problems on a knuck when running a S&S pump. Maybe though you already have this set-up?

As for the smoking when hot and oily plugs, it sounds like you have a ring sealing issue (rings not seated, gaps lined up, possible fuel wash etc) or guide issues. I have seen guides that come loose in the heads when at operating temp allowing oil to enter the comb chamber via the OD of the guide. Seen a couple of shovels this year in the shop with this problem (guide not fit up tight enough in the head when installed). It doesn't take much oil to create a problem. Don't know what type of rings you used, but we have always had good luck with Hastings cast iron rings honed with Sunnen 300 stones (220g). We don't use a moly faced rings in cast iron cylinders (eg: pans, shovels, knucks).

Hope this info helps, sorry about your ruined summer - sucks to have problems like this :(
<<

knucknutz

Posts: 35

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm

Location: clear creek,id

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: too much oil

brent, thanks for the feedback an sympathy,thought of having to pull top end really sucks. i do have the slower pump gears and i'm runnin s+s cast pistons which have what look like cast on top an mid, a 3 peice rings with shiny/chrome lookin stuff on ends for oil rings. when i checked end gap on rings before ass. they were right at almost max on the high side, is this bad? it was like 20+ on each one, an i know i got rings stagered. what ever it is its both cyl. i still think its to much oil to heads an its goin down guides.anybody got an opinion on vavle guide seals? went through search an found a few things,one guy said he ran them on intakes for 20,000 with good luck so far.my bike runs strong an starts good, com. feels good,bike runs great, it just smokes lightly when hot an plugs oily lookin, buts its way better than before.
Next

Return to Knuckles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2012 phpBB Group.