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Knuckl52

Posts: 5

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Crystal Lake IL. U.S.A.

Post Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:42 pm

cases

I have a set of cases that have 52 pan numbers,but the rest of the motor parts are knuckle. I would like to know if thay are a matched set. The rest of the bike is a swapmeet spical.
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rein

Posts: 109

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 1:01 am

Location: holland

Post Thu Mar 30, 2000 5:23 pm

just look at the lineborenumbers(under the generatorbracket) They should be the same and earlier than 1948.If those cases are 52, there is a distinctive oilreturnchannel in both cases at the cylindergasketsurface.If those channels are not there it still can be pancases but with the timken(large) bearing in the left case. Knucklecases have small leftbearings!There should be no oilfilterscrew in the right case for toplube. Among a lot of other things the lifterhousings are completely different than pan. This helps you?
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dotman

Posts: 582

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 1999 12:01 am

Location: meridian, id. usa

Post Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:44 pm

What are the casting numbers on bottom just forward of the center bolt SB same number smaller then SN like 52 1234 or 43 1789 etc etc etc, IF knuckle cases numbers would be 36 xxxx to 47 xxxx if pinhead they would be 48 xxxx to whatever unless early pan which would have 47 cast numbers but would also have oil feed holes on the barrel base gasket surface and Knukle wouldnt
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panic

Post Fri Mar 31, 2000 2:20 am

It's a bit more complex: drain channels 1948-52 only, but there are roller (small) bearing pan motors 1953-early 54 that have internal (through the cylinder into the left case deck surface) oil drain and no channels. All big twin motors 1930-54 use the same roller bearings on left side (.250" dia. X .490" long, 2 rows of 12 each); all 1936-57 right side are very similar (1.500" ID race). Threaded plug behind rear lifter block is for tappet oil - 1953 & later. Lower numbers are almost always same or previous year as VIN. Cases also have casting numbers (may not be visible) for groups of years: # will be 24540-40 (L) 26569-40 (R) for 1940 knuck, 26540-41 (L) 26569-41 (R) for 1941-47 knuck, 26540-48 (L) 26569-48 (R) for 1948-52 pan, 26540-53 (L) 26563-53 (R) for 1953-54 pan.
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rein

Posts: 109

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 1:01 am

Location: holland

Post Fri Mar 31, 2000 11:14 am

panic,you r more correct there,but: as far as i know,52-54pan left cases don't have a hole in the decksurface for oildrainage,it goes through a hole in the side of the cylinder about 1 " from the skirt,the oil drains through the bore.The only hole is on the right case for oil supply,or did i get you wrong?. I think the only thing to recognize MATCHING(in line bored)knucklecases is having the same ORIGINAL belly numbers,starting with 47-... back to 35-... again correct me.. Question:who knows what that 7 means, stamped in on both cases near the rear engine attach bolts(74 knuckle).I had several cases with them + on my own 1941-74,not seen them on a 61(yet),do they stand for 74(7)??
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Cotten

User avatar

Posts: 2674

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Fri Mar 31, 2000 3:03 pm

I've always wondered about those "7's", too. The main point that should be made about this motor is that most most state authorities would confiscate it.
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Knuckl52

Posts: 5

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Crystal Lake IL. U.S.A.

Post Fri Mar 31, 2000 3:22 pm

The berrles have drain hole's. But the cases don't. Thay are knuckle lifterblockes. The right case has the drain hole for the lifterblockes. I have to look at (L)and(R)case #'s.Maybe if I send them you would have a better idea of what thay are.
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rein

Posts: 109

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 1:01 am

Location: holland

Post Fri Mar 31, 2000 4:03 pm

sending those numbers is a good idea, and cotten,do you mean confiscating because of no original numbers? I heard something about that,over here authorities are not interested in those numbers,the only thing that counts for vehicle identification are numbers put in the frame by Dutch customs.Actually they kind of ruin the frame!So all these numberchanged leftside KNUCKLE cases you cannot use over there,send them to me!no problem,no stolen shit of course,still wondering about that 7.
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Knuckl52

Posts: 5

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Crystal Lake IL. U.S.A.

Post Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:28 pm

rein thank's The idea of looking under the generatorbracket worked the number's are the same 152638 8 the serial # is 52FL7373 I hope there not boges and thank's again rein
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Cotten

User avatar

Posts: 2674

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Sat Apr 01, 2000 3:37 am

Those are valid production numbers for a 74" 1952 Pan! For the right case to have tappet holes for a knuck is pretty interesting! The part about the cylinders having drain holes makes me suspect that the cylinders are pan and the heads had a bolthole moved, but that has nothing to do with the right case. Is there anyway you can scan to a j-peg? Now I'm damn curious!
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Jerry Wieland

Posts: 606

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA

Post Sat Apr 01, 2000 6:38 am

The 7's on the top of the rear motor mount boss stand for 74 cubic inch motor. Lack of a 7 implies 61 cubic inch. Later years they changed it to H to designate an FLH from an FL. It is as reliable as the 1 or 2 is preceding the year on the case matching numbers. ie Most of the time they are correct but I have seen them wrong. My 48 pan is an EL 61 inch motor and the case matching numbers are for a 74 and no 7 seven on the rear mount.
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rein

Posts: 109

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 1:01 am

Location: holland

Post Sat Apr 01, 2000 10:03 am

Jerry,that 7 mystery is solved i quess! Speaking pan, i assume you mean that a 1 proceding the inlineborestamp,for example:1526338 means its a 74pan,and a 2 makes it a 61pan?This would fit with those numbers KNUCKLE52 gave.Like COTTEN I think those barrels are pan,and the right case with knuckleblocks,very unlikely!Maybe only the heads are knuckle,or the right case is knuckle(easier to buy,than good left ones),and the inline number is changed acc.the left case.
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Knuckl52

Posts: 5

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Crystal Lake IL. U.S.A.

Post Sat Apr 01, 2000 12:24 pm

A freind was to clean it for me when I first got ti.The barrele's were gone so Idon't know what Ihave besides a big head-aech Iwant a knuckle out of it. everthing but the case's
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rein

Posts: 109

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 1:01 am

Location: holland

Post Sat Apr 01, 2000 6:25 pm

what i am wondering is :probably H-D put in those lineborenumbers and/or those sevens after assembling the cases with the crankshafts before putting on pistons and cylinders !? That would make sense from a productcontrolview.Now they could keep the bottoms apart,otherwise it was hard to see whether a worker was dealing with a 74 or a61,since the VIN number came after enginecompletion.This also explains why they or not on replacement cases.Rene are you sure you saw those 7's on 61's?
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Cotten

User avatar

Posts: 2674

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 12:01 am

Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Sun Apr 02, 2000 2:53 pm

You will find that four digit VINs from '65 have the overhead oilscreen, and MOST five digit VINs will be welch-plugged. (I have seen one exception)This is just another one of the inscrutable and often stoopid production changes that occurred during that year. Even Palmer knew better than to try to cover 65's in his "How to..." as they had more running changes than even the difficult '36 OHVs. And as you suspect, high-mileage machines without the screen are prone to sticking lifters. The screen came back for '66.
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Jerry Wieland

Posts: 606

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA

Post Mon Apr 03, 2000 2:42 am

Back to the 7's on the rear boss and 1's and 2's in case matching number. This information came directly from an old guy who worked at HD from 39 to 41 and again from from 45 to 51. In the late 40's it was his job to stamp some of these numbers and this was the procedure that was used.

The case matching numbers were put on the motor cases by the machinist that made them a pair. The number was taken from a work order. Then the cases were shelved until they were built in to a motor. It is possible that they were shelved wrong leading to a few confused cases.

The year and model information were put on the motor by the engine builder who of course would know whether or not it was 61 or 74 and high or standard compression. The motor was then shelved until it was assigned a chassis.

The sequence part of the number was stamped on the motor when it left the engine shed destined for a bike. The number was taken off of a work and job order.

This procedure explains why it is not uncommon to see different numerals between the year digits and the sequence digits and why they may have different impressions. They were stamped by a different person using a different stamp set and the bottom numbers were stamped using a third person and a third stamp set.

In all my years of owning knuckle and pans and I guarantee there are few people who have owned more original motors and bikes. I have only seen the 7's (41 and up) on the rear boss wrong once and the 1's and 2's on the matching number wrong 3 times. It is a pretty reliable indicator of what the motor started as. I also make a special point to check every bike/motor that comes around for serial number/case numbers and look for the 7 or lack of it.

Sorry, didn't really to preach.
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rein

Posts: 109

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 1:01 am

Location: holland

Post Mon Apr 03, 2000 8:13 am

makes sense and satifies me Jerry,thanks!
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Knuckl52

Posts: 5

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Crystal Lake IL. U.S.A.

Post Mon Apr 03, 2000 10:54 am

So Jerry what you'r saying is that these cases were made when they were making knuckles and was lost on the shelfes for a few year's. Then when it was built it became a pan.
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