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Cinci

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Curt!

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Post Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:03 pm

Cinci

Live from the V-twin Expo tonight. Had a great day at the show. The unveiling of the Knuckle motor was a little less fanfare than I'd hoped.There was always a crowd around the booth wanting information. I spent a lot of time picking the brain of the engineer working on the FHP knuck. Looks to me like they are on the right track to get it going. Eric and, I think, Mark are sort of off to the side working on the Knuck motor. Charlie told me they went back to gray iron to cast the heads. This, in my opinion, is a very good move. Pretty smart fellas with a lot of good ideas. The project is definitely moving toward production. Cast iron oil pumps that look original are coming The FHP Knucle motor should be available for sale in April from S&S dealers.
The Big Twin Flat has been put off until 2010, but heads and cylinders will be available later this year, MAYBE.
They have a deal going with a company in Australia that is making a Knuckle frame that looks darn close to perfect to me. I'm not the greatest guy at spotting flaws in early frames, but this one looks close. Those will also be available from S&S dealers.
I heard from several of the people in the company how much they value to mind trust of this tech site. They will be calling on us to give opinions and input on getting products to market that will help our sport. They are reading what is being said on here and indicated that they have acted on some of the ideas presented here.
Brett Smith was named V-Twin "Innovator of the Year"
The X-Wedge was named "motor of the year"
Lots and lots of Knucks and Panheads The variety of motor choices for custom bikes was wide and varied. I've got lots of photos to post, but won't get around to it till after I get back.
We went over to Kentucky tonight and scored some Buffalo Trace Bourbon. It's said to be nectar of the Gods. We didn't get invited to any of the private parties, so we're evaluating the quality of the golden gift.
Curt!
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Plumber

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Post Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:51 am

Re: Cinci

Great news :!: They haven't forgotten us.
How about moseying down to booth # 733 and ask Tedd Cycle, Inc. if we're going to get some new Replica 3.5 gallon tanks to go with the S&S knuckle stuff? Or or we all going to be stuck with the 3.5 gallon CCI tanks the "so-called industry" strapped us with 35 yrs. ago.
But first ask the peeps at S&S what kind of tanks are the P-Series (Panhead) builders going to use? Custom tanks or converted rual mailboxes, with fill necks welded to them :?: Because it's for sure not going to be those CCI over-ripe tomato's that are going to win a prize.
I bet the guy from Oz is happy to have an outlet for his knuckle frames. Is that protected from taxation covered under the free-trade agreement? Should be.
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Chris Haynes

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Post Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:46 am

Re: Cinci

I bet the guy from Oz is happy to have an outlet for his knuckle frames. Is that protected from taxation covered under the free-trade agreement? Should

Plumber,

I doubt that a product from OZ is covered under The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
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Pa

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Post Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:05 pm

Re: Cinci

That is great news Curt ! My appologies for missing the expo. Was in the middle of a move and got very tied up. Tried to wrangle today into a visit but that could not happen. S&S provided me badges and I didn't get to use them. Sorry Brett, Kevin, and Charlie. Pa
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Curt!

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Cinci

Plumber
You waited too long to post your your message. I did talk to V-twin for quite a while today, but we mostly discussed website ordering problems and their customer service issues, RMAs, and that type of stuff. I bit my tongue a bit when I was thinking about breaching the quality control issues.
I got a couple good photos of each side of the Knuck Frame S&S is going to market. I'll post the photos in the next couple days and we are invited to point out the flaws. They seemed confident we wouldn't find many.
pa I sure looked hard for you. I'd have treated you to some of those 6.00 beers they were serving. We missed the dealer essentials seminar today. Missed it yesterday and it was late in the afternoon today... Storms were moving in West of us, so we blasted out of there about 2. I'm sure you'd have had a ball. We're at Independence Mo. tonight and will get home tomorrow sometime. Rained like hell going through Illinois. I missed Leo Anthony's grandson, but met some more of his family at their booth.
There are some really talented kids building stuff that is very innovative. I was very impressed by one kid that used the left side grip as a clutch activator. The clutch pull was not much harder than the throttle. The guys from Zero Engineering in Japan were there with about 15 bikes. Knuckles, Pans, Shovels and Evos. I just love their bikes.
Got so much information and ideas that I'm exhausted and can't sleep tonight. Gonna take a while to sort it all out.

For some reason I got the idea that Charlie Hudyia was an older guy. He's just a young fella. I just spoke with him for a short time while we were waiting for a table at the bar, and you won't find a nicer guy anywhere. During the seminar we did attend, he knew the details of the FHP project and
was on top of everything asked of him. I can't express how committed these guys are to making the FHP project work. They have a bunch of time and money tied up in it and are doing stuff Doug could have never accomplished.
Curt!
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Kurt

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:01 am

Re: Cinci

WOW....what an event. It was packed the entire day on Saturday. I spoke with Charlie for close to two hours....all I can say is he and S&S have their stuff together. Flathead Power couldn't be in better hands. Curt, the Knuckle engine they had on display is not their new one; it's one from the LA. outfit. A lot is being changed on it, most notably the aluminum valve covers will be going back to tin and have solid lines. The cylinders will look more like OEM without infringing on trade marks of the foundries which he said are still in business (this will also roll over onto the UL cylinders). They are casting new side covers w/o the S&S logo (I believe he said there will be two different side covers made) and going to produce an original looking cast iron oil pump.

I talked with the people at ROSS pistons and have a meeting with them on Wednesday to see what's involved in getting some quality forged 45 pistons on the market. Other than the standard 45 piston, does anyone have any special requests (within reason) for the racing stuff? Something that has a universal application that can be sold. Maybe a dome......lower top ring........let me know. This will probably grow into the BT side valve pistons also depending on what we can do together.

I also spent some time with Will from Kibblewhite about producing valve train components for the 45 models. If all goes well, we may have something for everyone later this year. We're talking quality stock components all the way to a full on race components. He was really excited about the opportunity and I think he'll put some effort into it.

I avoided the V-Twin booth other than to look at their bike with a Knuckle engine in it.......................I'll wait for S&S.

Spent an hour or so talking with Guus from VG Frames from Holland about some of our upcoming projects......and the special one that will debut at the S&S 50th in Wi. This will be very interesting to say the least.

I met Dain and Marilyn from Iron Works and can say these are very very nice people. They've helped me out quite a bit and will be featuring all of our new products and builds throughout this coming year.

There is a ton of news that I cannot divulge right now because the details need to be ironed out and I don't want to jump the gun and promise something I can't deliver, but I will say this.........the deals in work are going to be awesome!

Kurt
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Last edited by Kurt on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Kurt

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Cinci

Here's a few more pix of what was at the show. The Knuckle is from Zero Engineering....they said they're moving to Vegas.
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john k. endrizzi

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:57 am

Re: Cinci

Thanks Curt! & Kurt,
For those of us that are not eligible to attend this show your reports and insights are invaluable. There has been quite a bit of controversy over the provenance of the Petrali machine. Is the yellow bike that you show authentic ? Of course Fat Dog won't get into this so it will be a one sided statement.
JKE
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
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Curt!

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:22 am

Re: Cinci

Kurt. ......
It wasn't as crowded this year as it was the past 3. Last year it was shoulder to shoulder in every isle both days. I liked the smaller crowd because you had more time to visit with vendors. Wish I'd have known you were there, I'd like to have met you in person. You're right about the Knuck motor S&S had on display. I like the idea of going back to original looking tins and sealing them with an o-ring groove. As I understood them, they are going to take all of the S&S and FHP logos off the outside of the engine? The cases are supposed to look more like the original cases.
What did you think of the Knuck frame S&S is marketing?
I always enjoy talking with Dain, but he was out wandering around when I was at their booth. I did spend quite a while visiting with Sam Kanish.
Interesting to note that Zero Engineering is using your springer front ends on their bikes. They spoke highly of you, saying they were pretty impressed with the quality of your parts. I found it pretty amazing that they sell 150 of those a year in Japan. The guy that owns the company is Chico from California's brother. I spent about an hour visiting with him. Pretty hard to understand him, but it was an interesting conversation. The Knuck in the Flatheadpower booth was one of theirs.
The display of land speed bikes was impressive. We got to talk quite a while with the mechanic that worked on the LSR Chris Carr piloted. He had some interesting stories about their trials and tribulations leading to the recored.
I stood around for about an hour waiting for a guy to quit talking to Charlie so I could visit with him..... wonder if that was you??? :lol: :lol:
Curt!
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Kurt

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:24 am

Re: Cinci

Curt,

Were we standing in front of the Flathead Power booth in the way of everyone? I was incognito for the beginning of the show and had on a brown leather jacket. I was going to tell you I was going, but up until Friday at 8:00 pm I still wasn't for sure because of all the work I have going on here. About 9:30 pm I said f__k-it.......I need to take a break and told Wendy to be up by 3:30 am so we could get on the road. It was the best decision I could have made. I wish now I would have stayed for Sunday.......was given VIP passes to the Drag Specilities Super Bowl party......O-well.....next year I'll be there all weekend with my booth.

John,

They had a display there saying it was the one, forgot to take a pix of it though. I've attached a pix of the vin. I know it's been shown before, but I got a pretty good shot of it. The cases look like they have pretty extensive work (welding) done to them. Was it ever fragged?

Kurt
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john k. endrizzi

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:15 pm

Re: Cinci

Kurt,
I believe that the motor saw duty in the early 50's on the drag strip. It seems to me that there have been posts on this matter here at FHP in the past. Chris did you happen to be involved in that earlier exchange ?
JKE
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
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Chris Haynes

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Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:25 pm

Re: Cinci

john k. endrizzi wrote:Kurt,
I believe that the motor saw duty in the early 50's on the drag strip. It seems to me that there have been posts on this matter here at FHP in the past. Chris did you happen to be involved in that earlier exchange ?
JKE


That is the original Petralli engine. It had been sitting in a guys shop in Salt lake City since it exploded over 50 years ago.
"Excessive" Jim Lattin built that bike and he has more of the original Petralli parts on it that the MoCo's bike does. The original Petralli bike passed through many hands during its life and parts got changed. Jim followed that path and picked up the pieces that were changed out. There is a real good article about it in The Antique Motorcycle a couple of years ago.
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Curt!

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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Cinci

Were we standing in front of the Flathead Power booth in the way of everyone?


No, No. Certainly not! You do a lot more with them than I ever will. I know how it is when you get into a conversation with someone. The exchange of ideas and information takes time. It's easy to spend a couple hours talking with someone that you may not get the chance to converse with until the show next year. Had there been 50 people around the booth, Charlie couldn't have given you two hours to discuss the issues that were important to you. Some rude person would have broken into your conversation and lost the train of conversation.

What I meant to say was that I browsed nearby waiting to get some time to speak with Charlie. I used that time to chat with the FHP guys and gained a lot of information while I waited. I also talked with other vendors in the area and picked up a Geico Busineess card holder... Really cool.
Experience has showed me that if you see someone you want to converse with at the show, you'd better keep them in sight because a lot of times they disappear and you won't see them the rest of the weekend. I do not interrupt when someone is carrying on a conversation, making a deal, or just socializing. I consider it to be rude. I think it must have been you and Wendy speaking with Charlie. Now I'm kind of sorry I didn't just break in and thank Charlie for the favor he did me a couple weeks ago. Then we probably would have met.
Curt!
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amklyde

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Location: Wisconsin, USA

Post Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:22 am

Re: Cinci

Thanks guys for putting up the Cinci pics. I last went about three years ago and swore I wouldn't go again. I got up early Saturday morning so I would have a chance to visit with some of my favorites and got stuck in a long line, because of a snafu at the badge windows. They had unregistered visitors and the same line as preregistered for about two hours before they straightened it out. By the time I got in, it was a madhouse. I stumbled around for a bit, got overwelmed by the shiny billet and trinkets, so I split. I think I will have to give it a go next year.
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Curt!

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Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:38 am

Re: Cinci

amklyde
This year was very different than in the past. It took me less than a minute to pass through the badge line. It was very noisy on the floor so it seemed like there was a big crowd. There were very few times you had to wait more than 5 minutes to talk to someone you wanted.
They had these cheesy badge holders this year, so I used my old one. The old ones were cloth and had a place to put business cards you picked up, a pen and a notepad. I saw a lot of people using the old holders. On Sunday they kicked me out of the second floor and made me go get a cheesy holder. They said the old holders made it easier to commit a fraud. Didn't quite understand that. So I wore both badge holders when I was upstairs.
WE did have a lot of fun.
Curt!
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Kurt

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Post Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:59 am

Re: Cinci

I heard something at the show, but for the life of me I can't remember who told me. They said that a lot of the Harley/V-Twin vendors are downsizing and/or dropping the Indy show because of way they lay out the show. They mix V-Twin vendors in with all the rice and it's causing problems. They said the vendors are starting to gear more towards the Cinci show only because it's all V-Twin. I was planning on a trip to Indy, but now may just stick with the Cinci show next year. I like a show where I know where I'm going and where the vendors are I want to meet with instead of wading through a sea of rice to get to a vendor. Anyone have any comments on the Indy show?
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Curt!

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Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:50 am

Re: Cinci

Kurt
They said that a lot of the Harley/V-Twin vendors are downsizing and/or dropping the Indy show because of way they lay out the show. They mix V-Twin vendors in with all the rice and it's causing problems.


I started hearing that about 2 years ago. I think it's pretty likely. A lot of the big vendors go to indy, but if you only deal in road bikes, the Cinci show has a lot more of the start up, and smaller companies. The Indy show is still a lot bigger, but 80% of what's there doesn't interest me.

Did you stay for the banquet Saturday evening? Every year they have gone cheaper on the food. Three years ago they had Bar-B-Que, Oriental, MeXican, all sorts of sandwiches, huge cheese and cracker trays. This year it was mostly pasta dishes.. and breads. The cheese trays were all gone by the time we got up there. I'm not bitching about it. It's, just that I noticed a lot of places they spent less money on the show this year. I don't even think they did an ice sculpture this year.
There were a lot of regular vendors that didn't show up this year. All together it shows a downturn in the industry.
Don't get me wrong... We had a great time. I'd go again.
Curt!
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Curt!

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Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:44 am

Re: Cinci

Here are the photos I took at the show that turned out. It's time I bought a new camera, a lot of them didn't turn out or didn't save to the memory chip. Here are the ones that turned out. I posted them on the VAM site, so you can zoom in on details.

http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/v/Cinci/
Curt!
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Curt!

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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:01 pm

Re: Cinci

Here's a photo gallery from Cinci done by HRL Bike magazine.

http://www.hotrodhotlinebikes.com/event ... /index.php
Curt!

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