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Ethanol

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Neil74

Posts: 251

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 9:38 pm

Location: Hudson, Florida

Post Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:15 pm

Curt
Thanks for the web site, good reading. According to Mr Brown it would take no time at all to end our dependency to foreign oil. I'll play with a B&S motor for a while and see where it leads. Thanks for the information Jack I'll see where it goes.
Cotten informative as usual!
Neil
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Plumber

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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:01 am

Location: S.Calif.

Post Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:26 am

Here's GWB with a beaker of high-test. Can we surmise that one day Pep-Boys will have a lead/octane booster for the new E-85? I can live with that. I would think that once private industry has refined grain-alcohol to where they want it, that they'll look for ways to blend some lightning into it.
Image
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DAK

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Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA USA

Post Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:14 pm

One problem with alcohol is that it tends to wash oil off of the cylinder walls. This was overcome by old time racers by adding castor oil to the alcohol for top end lubrication. Wonder if the castor oil would help mitigate any of the problems with alcohol breaking down seals and whatnot?
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Plumber

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:47 pm

One could imagine that Brazil has overcome the alcohol cylinder-wash problem?
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m/cgeezer1945

Posts: 376

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Location: Lebanon, CT USA

Post Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:28 am

Henry Ford's Model T was originalt designed to run on ethanol. Gasoline was considered a waste product in the early days of oil production and was dumped or flared off until someone decided to use it as fuel for internal cumbustion engines. To get the most work out of ethanol, comp ratios need to raised, carbs rejetted and timing advanced. don't forget that Indy cars run on ethanol. There is a wealth of info available on the net. google ethanol and you will be reading for days. Just my 2 cents.
8)
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Andrew J. Hester

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Post Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:40 am

I'm glad that you stated the fact about the Indy cars. Fuel wash is not the issue there. As a matter of fact, all fuels can be considered solvents. Gasolene, diesel, alcohol. Basically, all wash to some extent. Synthetic lubricants seem to have little or no problems as lubricants in an alcohol engine. Good synthetics, that is. The last time I read up on them, there were about 5 levels of quality. May be more, by now. Here is a link to an interesting post about dino lubricants:

http://www.chopperweb.info/forum/showth ... adid=20903

I've never really considered alcohol to be a problem as a fuel, and washing the lubricant from the cylinders. My concern would be with oxidation, if I didn't run the engine enough to evaporate condensate from the cases.

Jack
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Plumber

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:37 am

SAO PAULO, Brazil - At a mega fuel depot for tanker trucks, President Bush herald a new ethanol agreement with Brazil Friday as way to boost alternative fuels production across the Americas.
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HurtnDude

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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 1:01 am

Location: Richmond Va

Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:49 am

Meanwhile, the cost of bulk corn has risen by 40% and guess what...corn-fed beef, milk will inch up too....nothing tied to energy is free.

Oh my aching ass, hurtn, for sure
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Curt!

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Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Price of corn goes up to where a farmer can afford to grow it, the gov subsidy will go down. The farmer would rather get a parity price out of his corn than get a gov check for the difference in what it costs to produce and the sell price. The pundits are screaming about corn being used for ethanol is taking food out of human mouths. There are hundreds of thousands of acres setting idle in CRP programs and such that could be used to grow crops if they are needed. America has become so good at growing things that we are forced to pay farmers not to grow crops because unsold corn was having to be destroyed. The USDA controls how many acres of corn is grown each year, not the farmer.
The expansion of ethanol plants has taken the market by surprise, so it may take a season to catch up, but they will catch up.
I can count 4 major ethanol plants going up within 100 miles of me. I'm not buying into the scare tactics that make the headlines.
Curt!
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Plumber

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Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:51 pm

Free enterprise will win the day. "They'll" figure out ways to turn global warming around, and "crack" nitro down, to add to ethyl and bean oil for lube/fuel.
But, "they" won't be the government. Wouldn't work otherwise. Look for exotic metals in friction parts and more help from Brazil.
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Pa

Site Admin

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Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:50 pm

Until big oil is prohibited from controling earths peoples by their acts of placing pertinent officials into pertinent offices where their placements spin the rules and laws to keep big oil running things, nothing will change. Example.....how about the multi-billion dollar profits oil made this past year alone, while we all paid into that treasonist profiteering. We all have heard twenty or more different excuses for the high price of fuels. New excuses came a few times a week, from low production, over production, war, middle east price fixing, bla, bla, bla !! Proof is the treasonist profits made at our expense ! Not just ours either. At the expense of a nations heart, from infrastructure decay, state and local tax hikes, economic ruin, on and on and on..... And new sources of fuel ??? Same thing folks !! Big oil is already taking control of those fuels. The same tooling they use on us with present fuels is at work as we listen to the bull shit excuse as to why we can't have it yet. Every excuse they can toss at us is tossed. We are not ready for those fuels yet. Cost is to high. New regulations need to be put into place. bla bla bla bla !! Bullshit !!! I can understand the need for regulations but not regulations that put new fuel sources into big oul controls. Yep....we will fuel our vehicles the new liquid fuels from the same pumps that burn us today. We will plug our extension cords into outlets at those same spots as well. If we can recharge our electric vehicles at home, we will soon discover a super surcharge on our monthly utility bill. New fuel pricing will have a direct route to big oil bank accounts. It would be very enlightening to follow the money trail from those new plants Curt. When I say follow, I mean all the way to where they are banked. Bet it ends up with some big oil company and not some folks taking advantage with their investments in a free enterprise goal.

NOTE: No political statements were made or intended is this reply. The views expressed are the soul views of the writer. I am Pa and I approve this message. :lol:
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Curt!

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Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:45 pm

pa
You're right about that. There's not really any valid reason to limit ethenol in gasoline at 10%. The oil companies picked that number out of the hat to "clean up" emmisions.
Don't even get me started on Haliburton moving their offices to Dubai to dodge paying US Corporation taxes. The largest private recipient of
US taxpayer funds moving out of this country to keep from paying taxes. Thank You Mr. DEEEEK Cheney. GGGGGGRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
They should be banned from any more US contracts.
No political content. This should outrage every US citizen.
I'll shut up now............ Now, where'd I stash those valiums... :D
Curt!
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glove

Posts: 13

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:55 am

Location: Indiana

Post Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:32 am

This is not a political debate, just a point of view

I dont think you can keep the politics out of this one Pa,...

"Proof is the treasonist profits made at our expense ! Not just ours either. At the expense of a nations heart, from infrastructure decay, state and local tax hikes, economic ruin, on and on and on..... "

Can I ramble?
anyone here knows who/what Guide Lamp was. My grandpa worked there, my dad worked there...Anderson Indiana (home to me) used to be one of the largest GM factory towns in the good ole US.
We had Guide Lamp and Delco employing thousands of people.

I sat w/ my pops yesterday in a bar across the street from the factory he worked in for sooo many years. We watched as an auction was going on for all the remaining "stuff" inside the plant where those popular tail light lenses were made. It was a strange feeling.

I think the figures for GM factory employment were close to 40,000 here at one time (at its peak). Now, I doubt if there are 100 people employed by the various names GM has branched into. (Delphi, DRA, Guide Corp.)

Couple miles east of here- Muncie Indiana, Borg-Warner has announced they will be closing as well.

Looking north, in Kokomo Indiana, the Chrysler Corp. has also started the same process....
All these jobs moved out of the country- to make autos and parts to be sold right back to us.
*I know that there were a lot of molds and parts made for military production here too, ... makes me wonder where our current military vehicle parts and manufacturing have went :? I know Indiana has something to do w/ making Hum-Vs.


Pa- I couldnt agree more. "Until big oil is prohibited from controling earths peoples by their acts of placing pertinent officials into pertinent offices where their placements spin the rules and laws to keep big oil running things, nothing will change. "
- I cant imagine how much 'big oil' depends on the BIG 3(GM,Ford,Chrysler), but I know how much America depended on them.
One would think these companies had a moral obligation to keeping americans employed. Now I read about E85 fuel plants poping up all over America. Seems we need those farmers after all.

I remember reading about a party in Boston a few years ago, when some Americans had enough balls to stand up for something they believed in.
We should all know what that turned into and why.

sorry this has nothing to do with the original post, but in reading I felt inspired. Sorry Pa. remove or delete as you see fit.
now.... I will shut my trap and learn more about how new fuels are going to power our old engines.
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Pa

Site Admin

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Post Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:47 am

Thank you Curt. GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR is right on !!


Delete your reply ??? No Way !! Loved every word of it !! Pretty well targeted too. My personal definition of political is when a certain individual or party is promoted as the one to vote for. This topic has birthed possible solutions to accessing these new fuels for our bike and other road machnes. A bit of critique is in the math of those formulas we need to evaluate. Best to leave out names of political office holders though. We all know who thery are, who they were, what they did, how they did it, when they did it, and even most of what they plan to do. :wink: Pa

IMO........Dr. Dick has been on the correct path for years already. What he has done can be done with alternative fuel sources for bikes as well. Please forgive me for taking the liberty of involving your good name Dick. You are the perfect example of my intentions though. Pa
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Cotten

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Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:40 pm

I think we are all preaching to the choir.

....Cotten
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Plumber

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:24 pm

preaching to the choir
... actually it's "singing" to the choir. :wink:
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Curt!

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Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:59 pm

No, I'm pretty sure it's "preaching to the choir". At least that how we say it around here.
Curt!
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Plumber

Posts: 1536

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Location: S.Calif.

Post Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:15 am

When the preacher tells the choir something, they might benefit from what he has to say. He's the preacher, they're the choir.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When someone from the choir starts singing the same song to the choir that everybody in the choir already knows, they wonder why.
Last edited by Plumber on Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Pa

Site Admin

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Post Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:59 pm

And now from this "Pa Pit" I pass the collection plate. :wink: Pa
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Cotten

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Location: Central Illinois, USA

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:14 am

HurtnDude accurately predicted:
"Meanwhile, the cost of bulk corn has risen by 40% and guess what...corn-fed beef, milk will inch up too....nothing tied to energy is free. "

That's already old news!:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18946296/

Even if the entire corn crop was devoted to motor fuel, it would not put a dent in the total need. But it would devastate the livestock, feed, and byproducts industries by trying.

....Cotten
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