FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

1954 KHK special, finished at last...

Moderators: Curt!, Pa

<<

Frankenstein

User avatar

Posts: 1543

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:01 am

Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Thu May 25, 2006 2:47 pm

Did you modify your heads to take the Dome pop up pistions? I wasn't sure from your description if that was the case. The reason I ask is that I'm working on a swap for a pair of 69R heads, new, that are meant to be used with the domed pistons. Course I don't have the pistons, but it's a start. I'm really impressed with your relieving work, I presume that's what was described in the kr racing manuals?
Thanks for any info.
Dr Dick
<<

thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Thu May 25, 2006 3:42 pm

No, Frankestein, fitted with std Dixie flat pistons, +.010, 2 1/2 thou clearance.

I have it from very good authority (good old french bike tuner, he use to make/sell Eiffel tower type rods for 50cc racers...) that domes on a flathead won't work and the woes of the factory at Daytona 1969 make me think he's right... ( reminds me that I haven't yet made those piston drg copies for Strocker...) They never told the full story but I'm pretty sure they all reverted to flat pistons before the one week delayed race... Hence all the dome heads seen on ebay seem to have had little mileage on them!!!

I think personnaly that the dome problem is related to what's actually missing in the dome head which is the shelf that greatly helps intake charge change of direction and swirl...

Also read somewhere that the H.D race dept. felt that the std K/KH straight shelf was better for maximum power but, coupled with the hairy inlet cams, made the KR very untractable, hence the angled KR shelf that restored some of the mid range power. Most of the numerous variations on KR heads over its reign were to do with minute alterations to the shelf angle...

Yes, also done the relieving, big 10.000rpm electric motor hung in the rafters with 1" diameter flexible drive on it, had the manual drgs and a sadly single 55R KR NOS cylinder as a model... But my finishing is well below the factory item... don't know how that unknown guy in the race dept. could achieve such finish and repeatability, looks like days to just do one, there's not one ripple on the floors and they blend so smoothly with the valve seats... a work of art that proudly sits in my "office".

Patrick
<<

RUB-BOY

Posts: 20

Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 12:01 am

Location: FINLAND

Post Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:01 am

VERY NICE BIKE!So much work!Ride like you stole it,KHK is powerfull bike.RUB-BOY
<<

thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:30 am

Had my 1st run with her yesterday, went today to testing station to get MOT (certificate of roadworthyness valid for one year), argued again with the tester...(you need a brake light... No I don't...etc...) Got the MOT and tax disc (free for vehicles made before 1975 over here)...

These days, they have to weight what's being tested as well, 60kgs (132lbs)on the front end and 110 kgs (242 lbs) on the back, a 170 kgs (374 lbs) bike, full of oil and gas, not bad for a H-D!!!

Off now for a longuer run to try to sort the carburation, she's way too rich at the bottom end but cleans up better up the range...

... and, hum, yes, she's very noisy when I open her...

Patrick
<<

Barry55KH

Posts: 240

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Kirkland, WA, USA

Post Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:28 am

Patrick, I am pulling my post '72 pump out. Too much oil volume and this is likely the problem that my bike has had for years. Breather timing is important, but with KH side oilers the volume that the pump puts out is stuffing too much oil on the skirts and in the bottom. We may modify the '72 pump with a plate and use gears from the earlier pumps. Mine lasted about 1000 miles this time, before it lost its snap and compression.

It used to last longer with the KH style ringed pistons, but still would eventually loose compression and power. Burns lots of oil all the time though. Hope yours works right!

Best regards,
Barry55KH
<<

thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:19 pm

Hi Barry,

Can't say I had a problem with post 72 oil pumps on mine, ran it like that more or less since I had it... Mind you, I tend to use all the available revs in equal measure, it's my philosophy that if the engine's happy at 6000rpm, give him some freedom!!! I have noticed in the past that town driving equals low revs equals some oil retention in the cases ( big puffs of smoke when I reach the clear roads...)

I also have to add that as I ran it for a long time without the gene and no oil slinger, most of the oil consumption was via the breather... I might notice a difference now that I made an oil slinger from the drive side casting of a gene...

If you pull off your 72 pump, it might be easier to machine the 72 tower shaft to suit the earlier small gears/half moon retainers???

Another way could be to use a KR 4 slot tower on 72 bottom and run it at 1/4 speed as intended, one would get the long duration and less delivery. I toyed with this idea but haven't applied it yet...

Patrick
<<

greybeard52

User avatar

Posts: 1050

Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Chatham, NJ, USA

Post Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:05 pm

Barry, that does not compute. The later oil pump had the same size supply gears, only the return half of the pump was larger than the old pump. Just my $0.04 G :?
<<

panic

Post Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:59 pm

Sorry, I'm not going into this again.
Last edited by panic on Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<<

greybeard52

User avatar

Posts: 1050

Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Chatham, NJ, USA

Post Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:36 am

Thank You for the clarification, Panic. I did read your book on breather timing, just didn't apply it. Conversely, the timing on the 72 pump, advanced one tooth, is almost exactly the same as the KR specs, but the KR is a high speed engine. Like Barry i have a problem with too much oil and i use the 72 pump (my original 52 pump was shot and i replace it with what i could get). G
<<

HonestJohn

Posts: 148

Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Dorothy, NJ. USA

Post Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:56 am

KHK

I rode a 55KHK once just before I got drafted in 1970. I could have bought it for $60. Dad said NO! to much crap in the yard. I think he expected me not to come back. That bike was so Fine... It's one of my major regrets in my life. I tried to find it when i got back, but it was gone.
Your bike is beautiful. Ride the piss out of her. Honest
<<

HonestJohn

Posts: 148

Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Dorothy, NJ. USA

Post Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:57 am

KHK

I rode a 55KHK once just before I got drafted in 1970. I could have bought it for $60. Dad said NO! to much crap in the yard. I think he expected me not to come back. That bike was so Fine... It's one of my major regrets in my life. I tried to find it when i got back, but it was gone.
Your bike is beautiful. Ride the piss out of her. Honest
<<

HonestJohn

Posts: 148

Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Dorothy, NJ. USA

Post Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:58 am

KHK

I rode a 55KHK once just before I got drafted in 1970. I could have bought it for $60. Dad said NO! to much crap in the yard. I think he expected me not to come back. That bike was so Fine... It's one of my major regrets in my life. I tried to find it when i got back, but it was gone.
Your bike is beautiful. Ride the piss out of her. Honest
<<

panic

Post Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:36 am

Sorry, I'm not going into this again.
Last edited by panic on Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<<

thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:27 pm

Hi All,

Follow up on Panic's oil pump capacities... I went in my parts bin to have a look:

K/KH/57 to 61?XL oil pump gears: 14 teeth
delivery gears .217" thick, 5.51mm
scavenge gears .360" thick, 9.14mm

62?/71 Sportster oil pump: 16 teeth
delivery gears .181" thick, 4.59mm
scavenge gears .375" thick, 9.52mm

They were changes to oil pumps in 56KH, 62XL, maybe more, don't know for sure what for, hence the question marks above...

2 teeth more per revolution roughtly equals a 22% ( 11% per gear x 2 as both gears pump...) increase in delivery volume from K to XL BUT the XL delivery is narrower, can't face measuring the loss it entails!!!

But the XL scavenge is more than 22% above that of the K as the gears are thicker...

My only 72 oil pump's on the bike, can't check its gear sizes...

Also have a 1/4 speed 70 or 72 XR oil pump on the shelves ( different body casting # but same height/drilling patterns as K and XL):
delivery gears as above Sportster
but scavenge is a whopping .393", 9.98mm, that should't wet sump in theory!!!

I wanted to post photos of all these but batteries are flat, sorry!!!

Patrick
<<

thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:00 am

<<

epinut

Posts: 188

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:30 pm

Location: sweden

Post Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:48 pm

Wow, that sound is really sweet!
<<

BREWSKI

Posts: 919

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:01 am

Location: RENO,NV. U.S.A.

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:27 pm

Patrick,john penner in san berdoo makes repo KR hartails,if interested let me know and I will give you his phone#. BREWSKI
<<

JohnR

Posts: 146

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 1:01 am

Location: Utah,USA

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:39 pm

Thanxz Mr frenchowl

Those videos are fun.
<<

MarkBranst

Posts: 341

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:58 am

Hey, When you link over to FrenchOwl's movie site, click backwards into his address and view the rest of the videos that he has on his site ... Very funny stuff ... MarkB
<<

thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:42 am

Hi All,

t'is not my site!!! It's Baza's site, a friend of mine in our G.B. H-D riders club...

Patrick
PreviousNext

Return to K-Models

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2012 phpBB Group.