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KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

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Nick55KH

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Post Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:07 am

KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi Guys,
have been living with the K-model dry (often wet) clutch blues for a million years now... got to washing the plates every six months, make sure primary doesn't get too much oil from wet sumping, try not to let the bike lean over on its side for months and months, swear a lot trying to get neutral most of the time etc etc. BUT I've heard using a British clutch lever can offer more throw to the push rod? Making for easier smoother gear changes... Does this make sense guys, has anybody tried it? What lever am I looking for, how do I describe its size from pin to pin, will it fit a K cable?

Thanks and regards, Nick.
Last edited by Nick55KH on Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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44dwarf

Posts: 318

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:22 pm

Location: north central Ma.

Post Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:25 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

I find that a 2x4 under the kickstand keeps the bike almost up right when sitting months on end.

I also took a cue from my local dealer and any time I know its going to sit i pull the case plug and let it puke in to a drain pan. I made up a hose barb fitting and run it in to a oil pan with a dished top and a hole in the center (the kind with a pour spout) This way no dust or bugs get up inside and i can see where the other drips come from.

Same dealer also made a good comemnt that most of the time the clutches get wet guys go nuts replacing the derbby and the bushings etc but never check the ring gear rivvets. He says his dad used to dab JB Weld over the rivvets after a good cleaning in acetone. On the teams race bikes.

Sorry no info on the lever.

44
"Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco"
"Transplant organs, Don't bury them!"
Why dwarf? 5/8 scale race cars! http://www.dwarfcarracing.com
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Barry55KH

Posts: 240

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Kirkland, WA, USA

Post Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:03 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi Nick,

If you are trying to run a dry clutch, you are fighting a loosing battle! I tried that for about a year, twenty years ago with no luck, and constant cursing and digging in the primary cover on a regular basis. Buy a Barnett Wet/Dry clutch, then throw the half moon derby cover for your clutch hub and all those fiber plates away! Buy at the same time a good set of metal plates, that are flat. It is important that all your plates are flat, so check them on a peice of glass or a surface that you know is flat. There is a supplier some where, that sells the metal plates very reasonable, as if you buy them through HD they are big bucks. I think it was one of the racing suppliers, but it has been years since I have had to buy any. If you try to run the Barnett plates dry, and then they get wet it will act the same as the ones you have now. Run them wet without the derby cover on, and oil them before you put them in, just lightly is fine, as without the derby cover they will get wet pretty quickly. It will be years before you have to get back into your primary cover. You will be too confident with it and forget to check your primary chain tension! It is that Good!

Spend the $140 or $150 for all the plates and be done with the BS. Does anyone know the good suplier for the metal clutch plates?

Good Luck!
Barry55KH
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panic

Post Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:31 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

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Barry55KH

Posts: 240

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Kirkland, WA, USA

Post Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Here is the Barnett '70 and earlier clutch page. I use their clutch springs also, and have been running the same set for about 20 years.... You might have to cut and paste this or just do a search for Barnett Clutch. They have quite a few kits, some I have seen on Ebay pretty cheep, or go through your favorite supplier and help keep them in business.

http://www.barnettclutches.com/products ... clutch_cc=

Barry
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Nick55KH

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Post Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Thanks guys, but has anyone experimented with lever geometry ie. using the British levers? Who might be up on this stuff would you think... a little extra throw to the push rod would help wouldn't you think? Any ideas?

Best, Nick.
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Barry55KH

Posts: 240

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Kirkland, WA, USA

Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:29 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi Nick,

If your clutch dry plates get wet, it will not matter how far a "throw" the lever has... Just set it up with the wet clutch, and be done with it. If you are just trying to save money, then you are loosing valuable riding time! Get a wet clutch, and forget about it!

Barry55KH
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Nick55KH

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:38 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi Barry, have been running dry/wet plates for a while now, they are better but still require de-gunking every so often. The lack of rear clutch seals is the prob with the Ks, Patrick has confessed that in the past I remember. But running with no derby cover is an interesting idea. Not loosing riding time over here in Australia: it's the middle of winter as cold and as wet as can be outside... I ride WLs as well if you look over in the 45 forum you'll se we have been chewing over hand clutch issues with a focus, recently, on lever geometry... if any one has any experience on this let me know – Early Triumph 1" have been cited as the way to go: not sure.
Best, Nick.
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Barry55KH

Posts: 240

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Kirkland, WA, USA

Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:55 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi Nick,

Just open her up, pull off the derby cover, and close her back up. You will be amazed, as long as they are Barnett clutch plates, and your steel plates are flat. You will think you are riding a modern evolution Sportster. The KH, and early Sportsters work great with a wet clutch. Mine will do second gear scratches, and pull the steapest hills with not a slip!

Good luck!
Barry55KH
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thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi all,

... there's not only plates in this clutch, but springs as well!!!

Have had slipping issues in the past, and oil invading the inners... Changing old springs for new ones always sorted the problems... Even went as far as purchasing 750 XR race OEM springs, but they're still on the shelves, unused. My XLRTT, 74ci and methanol burning on top of it, is also on a std clutch set up as far as I can tell, it doesn't slip either.

Have always used std OEM plates all these years, and find the early lever quite adequate and up to the job.

Patrick
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Nick55KH

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:17 pm

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hiya Patrick,
I have recently tried some heavy duty springs (painted red they were) but they were hand breakers! Imagine the XR springs are similar, they were much much harder to pull, I fitted a new cable, rerivited the basket plate guides... I can only get neutral when I'm rolling pretty fast: it's annoying. The plates Barry metions did seem to grip better than standard they don't slip under high power much at all. What should be the pushrod length? Where's best to get a new one?
Off I go to try and find the 1" Triumph lever, will report back, no harm in trying as my problem is grabbing not slipping really.
Best, Nick.
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4676

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:05 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

It has been so long since I opened a K model gear box up but I thought the pushrod was a three piece rod ? Pa
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panic

Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:42 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

I don't know any pushrod details, but if the length is wrong (short or long) you won't get full travel from the release arm.
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Nick55KH

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:24 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi, yeah its three piece but how long I wonder?
Best, Nick.
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thefrenchowl

User avatar

Posts: 584

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:18 pm

Location: Crewe, Great Britain

Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:46 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi all,

There's actually 2 full lenghts... All K/KH/XLCH up to 69, and a longer lenght for lecky start XLH, 67/71 and CH 70/71...

... And several designs , at least 3, for the 4th and last bit that goes in the clutch hub...

Patrick
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Barry55KH

Posts: 240

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:01 am

Location: Kirkland, WA, USA

Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Hi All,

I had mine apart, and am just about to put it back together. The total length including the left side rod that hits the clutch outside plate is 11 and 3/8ths In.
There are four pieces total, with the small one being the one that gets stuck in there. I always end up cutting a piece of coat hanger to force it out on to a bath towel, to keep it from rolling off, or getting damaged from the drop to the floor. If the coat hanger is too thin, like the one I just used, it will pass by the short one as it gets close to the right side. Then when you try to pull the coat hanger back, it gets trapped. I cut the other end off to make it straight and then slid it all the way though. Then stuffed it back in and carefully poked the little one out to take these pictures.

Running mine wet, without the derby cover, I can find neutral at a dead stop no problem, as long as the trans is set up correctly. The old trans would shift into First Gear with out any drag, and then realease easily. I am using the Red Barnett Springs, and they work really well. I also got rid of the short clutch hup stud nuts and just run the long ones, as they are much easier to deal with. You can still buy copies through V-twin. The V-Twin trans I put in this last rebuild would not shift to First gear without jamming it up into second first, and then down to First gear. This time since we had the trans out to split the cases, we modified the new trans by putting in the old Gear Shifter Cam and Pawl Carrier as a complete unit. The V-Twin one had weird cuts in it for a positive locking neutral, and it would not shift over them for smooth operation even on the bench. My trans and engine guy, Gene Covert (Covert's Bad As Choppers, Preston WA.) switched them out, and it bench tested smoothly... We shall see when I get it running though. It did fit together like it was made for the new transmission, as that is the only major part that was different. Gene has put in about six V-Twin transmission in bikes that have all had major problems, either getting into First, or getting into Second. The Gear Shifter Cam Follower that is spring loaded at the bottom of the Shifter Cam and is mounted through the trap door, is supposed to hold it in neutral, not the cam cuts them selves. They had to improve it and messed it all up as usual! Well I guess at this point I am not for sure on that, but Gene seems to think this is the cure.

Best Regards,
Barry55KH
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Nick55KH

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Post Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:36 am

Re: KH Clutch Lever Alternative...

Thanks for meaursing that Barry! I'll get it apart and check it, my shifting is fine but as I say I have to be rolling at speed to get back into neutral, it's dragging I'm sure but I'll keep at it... your theory on taking the derby cover off makes good sense as this is how the pommy bikes did it – the oil would spin out much easier at speed, good call mate...
Best, Nick.

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