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Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2637

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:18 pm

Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

I just found out the the hardware on the new '08 models is metric. Add to that the axles are made from some space age powder tightly compressed in a mold under great heat. Willie G. and Louie Netz have done it to us now.
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:50 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

and...?

So you are complaining that the machines you spend so much on, and regard so highly, are made to the latest specifications using the latest hi-tech methods?

sometimes it's much simpler being a Brit.....
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2637

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

sometimes it's much simpler being a Brit.....

Sure it is. If you want a tool bok holding British Standard, Metric, And Whitworth tools. Plus another box of SAE for your American bike.
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Randall

Posts: 62

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:29 pm

Location: Texas' Big Bend country

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:32 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

I'd say its about time H-D went metric and the rest of the US manufacturers would do well to follow suite. One of the things I like about my 2002 Victory V92C is that it is built with metric fasteners. I spend a lot of time trying teach high school shop students to measure accurately using feet, inches, and fractions of an inch; they catch on to the decimals of the metric system much more quickly. Immigrant students who come to us from abroad who learned to use the metric system look at me incredulously and say, "But Mister, why? Everyone else in the world uses the metric system and its so much easier than all those fractions!" I just shrug and tell them, "Well, its traditional, and the US has the world's largest economy and we can, so there!" Which, as the most die-hard traditionalist among you must admit, is not a very good reason. The US is steadily losing market share for our products overseas because we cling to an antiquated measuring system that even the Brits, staunch traditionalists that they are, have abandoned. I'll not get rid of my inch-measure micrometers any more than I've ditched my Whitworth wrenches, and I don't suppose any of you other lovers of antiquated machinery will either, but modern manufacturers should move on and adopt the world-wide standard.

End of rant --- Randall
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:10 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

well quite so.

The good thing about being a Brit is that we don't have to justify Harleys in terms of 'Made in the US of A', we can just view them for what they are.. expensive motorcycles. If I'm paying that kind of money for a motorcycle I want a GOOD motorcycle, nuts and bolts just hold it together, in case anyone has forgotten that
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2637

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:47 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

I have three roll away toolboxes packed with fractional tools. I am not going to buy another box to fill with metric shit. I guess I have bought my last new Harley.
Last edited by Chris Haynes on Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:51 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

don't suppose I will buy one any time soon either, but I hadn't planned to anyway. I'm still with Randall on this one, speaking as a professional engineer that is
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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Pooka

Posts: 53

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:55 pm

Location: Lebanon, Missouri

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:18 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

Bought my last new H.D. in '86, been up grading, but it's still an '86 with better stuff.
Had a Chevy years ago, that had metric stuff all over it, and SAE. Used to drive me nuts.
Why couldn't it be one way or the other ? :?
I CELERITER TEMPUS DEFICIT.........
CARPE DIEM
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4758

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:01 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

You are all missing a few valuable points here in this topic, at least IMO.... First off, a small bit of history lesson can reveal the use of the , if I may say, SAE system, here in the United States. Initially, when control and governed by the crown, before the U.S. bacame the U.S., and several years beyond, the metric system, was the system in use here. The system used, up until the reintroduction of the metric system, was used as a symbol of total independence. Like unto which side of the road we drive on, what door we enter and leave through, etc.. Since then, the world in which we live has changed considerably. A standard form of measurements was needed and metric became the choice of the majority. I personally would have been happy with what I am familiar and more confortable with, standard U.S.. Working in the machine trades, I find the metric system more complicated to use compared to the system used here in the U.S. for the past few centuries. My main gripe is the tolerence designations used in the metric side. They are very confusing to me at times because they do not designate a tolerance with a plus or a minus numeral dimension, especially when working with micro dimensions. Close tolerance fits use letter dimensions for tolerances. H this and so on. One must know what H this and so on are before one can decifer what size a given tolerance really is. On the other hand, when one is in the machine trades and is working in tolerances designated in inch, 6" Plus .0001" or minus .0001" is a given dimension that is understandable to all. A machinist knows full well that the nominal size is 6". He also knows ful well that he can be .0001" larger or smaller than the 6" nominal size asked for. Metric use seems more simplified as ones works with dimensions on a scale basis. 1 mm 2 mm 3 mm etc.. It seems to me the metric system is easy to use until ones breaks it down into micro measurements. I guess if one grew up with the metric system, one would have no problem using it. Vise versa, would you not say ? Pa
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4758

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Location: Ohio USA

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:15 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

One other point i would like to make......How many tools can one sell before sales decrease ???? OK, a bunch, but ??? What happens when sales do drop ? How does a tool company recover from lower sales ? It creates a new fastener that needs a new tool to fit it ! The manufacturing industries, especially the automotive, work with both the fastener manufacturers and the tool manufactures. I have been buying tools all of my life. Fasteners have changed over and over again. There are so many types of screw heads today, it boggles ones mind ! No matter what the fastener, driving them in or out has become the tool nightmare. It makes no difference whether or not the world reaches a complete unified standard of measurement. Industry will continue to change how tools are designed to work with fasteners. Engineering is no longer the driving factor in fastener design. Tools sales are ! Pa
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Curt!

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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Hill City, Ks. USA

Post Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:11 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

I've gotta say that I've had metric tools in my box for many years. I still cringe a bit at having to break them out, but metrics are the way things will be. Right now the US is the only holdout to converting to metrics. They are easier to understand if you are learning from scratch. Think of it this way. 20 years from now , when you are the only guy in 100 miles that still has SAE tools,,,, how much would your services be worth to a guy with a 72 Shoveler?
Curt!
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Pooka

Posts: 53

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:55 pm

Location: Lebanon, Missouri

Post Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:53 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

Curt! wrote:I've gotta say that I've had metric tools in my box for many years. I still cringe a bit at having to break them out, but metrics are the way things will be. Right now the US is the only holdout to converting to metrics. They are easier to understand if you are learning from scratch. Think of it this way. 20 years from now , when you are the only guy in 100 miles that still has SAE tools,,,, how much would your services be worth to a guy with a 72 Shoveler?

I was born in 1947 . My Pan was born in 1950. My Evo was born in 1986. In 20 years I hope I can remember my name. :lol:
So I guess if we have to make the change to the metric system, I'll just keep my old stuff.
I have a 2004 Chevy Suburban.It has less then 30,000 on it.
It should last untill the Government tells me I can't drive it any more, because it only gets 20 mpg. :mrgreen:
I CELERITER TEMPUS DEFICIT.........
CARPE DIEM
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krazy loop

Posts: 646

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Detroit

Post Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:06 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

One trip to Sears for a set of metric wrenches, sockets, and hex keys solves the problem. It isn't that big of a deal and does not cost all that much. I still think in terms of inch tools because that is what I was brought up on but American cars have been primarily metric for years now. A number of metric wrenches and sockets also fit our standard sizes like 12mm = 1/2 inch. That's not exactly the correct math but those particular ones are very close to each other and work fine.

What I can't stand are TorX tools, even though I have a number of them. You can't work on BMWs without them. I have not paid attention but it wouldn't surprise me that numerous foreign manufacturers use TorX. They don't come in metric or inch sizes, just numeric sizes like 45, 46, etc., and most have far smaller numbers.

Incidentally, a lot of modern auto engine rods are made from compressed powdered metal. When an auto engine puts out 500 HP and more they go to forged rods because the powdered metal isn't strong enough. Chrysler SRT8 rods are scored and then have the caps carefully cracked off to give an exact mating surface instead of cut apart. A number of bike axles are also hollow tubes these days, too. I came across an engineering book that claimed a tube won't deform as readily as solid bar stock of the same diameter. It didn't sound logical at first but maybe that is correct.

There is a lot of new stuff these days that is an improvement, but I understand the bro's, and I still like my 51 panhead.
New Knuckleheads? Thank, you, Jesus!!
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:55 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

the maths about the strength of a tube is correct. You'd think not, but it's so
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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RUBONE

Posts: 381

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Post Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:14 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

Having worked for Harley-Davidson dealers through the AMF years I have always had metric tools in the boxes. All the Italian built lightweights used them. I ride vintage BMWs as well as my old Harleys and need them there too. And the drawers of British Standard and Whitworth are used too for the Brit stuff I mess with as well. I will not try to get a set of lathe gears to cut metric threads though, that is going too far! There has been a scattering of metric fasteners on Harleys for years, but most of them have had allen socket heads so are not too obvious. Besides, as far as I am concerned anyone who buys that late model Harley junk gets what they deserve!
Rubone
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krazy loop

Posts: 646

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Detroit

Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:20 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

Rubone, I am not being critical so don't take what I say that way.

I cannot help but think that in years past some segment of the riders was not impressed when the factory went from knuck to pan, pan to shovel, generator to alternator, etc. It would not have bothered me if they stopped making advances after the later 1950s, except maybe for disk brakes. I specifically did not care and still don't for the look of generator shovel cases and I especially don't like the look of alternator cases. Are alternators an improvement? I would have to say they are. There are countless other examples as well.

You see my point.
New Knuckleheads? Thank, you, Jesus!!
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Pooka

Posts: 53

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:55 pm

Location: Lebanon, Missouri

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:43 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

When my new bike is finished, there will those who will say " It's not a ' True Panhead' ".
Because the heads are STD Panheads. And the frame is a Santee.The flywheels are S&S.
The old springer has been extended 6 ", but it's a Harley !
And so is my title !
Now if a metric bolt and nut find their way on to my HARLEY, does it make it less of a HARLEY ?
Does any thing I have done to MY bike make less of a Harley ?
I'm sure there will be some here that has nothing to do with the point.
But I think it has every thing to do with the point !
No matter what you do to it, or have done to it, or you are going to do to it. It is your's.
And the title still reads the same.
HARLEY- DAVIDSON !
Metric or other wise.
This forum is just full of ideas on how to fix the MoCo's screw ups.
But as soon as any one steps out side of riding any thing in a stock frame, or stock forks, they get looked down on.
My stock frame was stolen. And I WILL NOT pay the retarded price for a repop, or some hacked to crap piece.
Besides, I'm building my bike to please me, not you !
I CELERITER TEMPUS DEFICIT.........
CARPE DIEM
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45Brit

Posts: 1437

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 am

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:02 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

is this thread still going? stone the crows....
Shoot, a man could have a good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff...
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4758

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

Pooka.....IMO........You make excellent points. It all adds up to each his own. :) Pa
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ohio-rider

Posts: 234

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:26 am

Location: Ohio

Post Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:30 pm

Re: Harley-Davidson, The New Metric Cruser

Quite an interesting thread guys.
I would never have thought there could be so many strong opinions about wrench's. I have my personal preferances as well but I'll save them for another time.

Hey 45Brit.... I've never heard the saying "stone the crows" before. Could you elaborate on its meaning for me?
-Steve
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