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Piston oilers for Big twin SV's

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Frankenstein

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Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Post Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:18 am

Piston oilers for Big twin SV's

Just an open challenge to all you free spirits out there. Just discussing the fact that twin cams have a jet of oil directed at the bottom of the pistons, to keep them cooler. Something I think the big twin could use. So, I'd like to hear any and all ideas of how to get some oil squirted up at the bottom of the pistons. My rather conventional thinking is to somehow direct an oil line internally upward that won't be in the way of the flywheels or the piston skirts. But there doesn't seem to be much room for that. So,
There's the challenge. I'd like to hear any and all ideas.
Dr puzzled Dick
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Frankenstein

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Post Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:27 am

Well, nobody volunteered any Ideas, so this is what I came up with. Check out the link for more info
Image

Image
I blocked off the hole where the 2 drillings for studs meet, and drilled and secured the 2 jets with JB weld. The drillings in the jets are #61 hole

http://www.freewebs.com/dicky_linn/flat ... noiler.htm
Last edited by Frankenstein on Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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thefrenchowl

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Post Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:20 pm

Hi Frankenstein,

Best way I've seen that done, on old racers, is to make a 1/8th or so wide 45 deg. chamfer in the crankcase mouth, bring an oil line to feed that triangular tore, then drill 6 to 8 .020" holes at a 60 deg upwards angle all around the base of the cylinder where the flange meets the cyl. mouth...

Patrick
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Frankenstein

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Post Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:46 pm

Patrick, thanks for the response, although it's come a little late for me. A good idea though, and obviously one I'd never have thought of. Thanks for the input.
Dick
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Frankenstein

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Post Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:35 pm

Hi IP,
wondered where you were. All comments appreicated. You guys have to remember that I'm a man of limited means. My solar powered shop doesn't allow for welding that includes electricity. That's why you see so much brass in my pictures...
Your ideas that would allow for removable changeable jets are good ones. In fact, I'm in the process of resizing mine for optimum flow by resoldering and redrilling the present orifices in situ. Something that could have been a whole lot easier.
Relying on the JB is a new thing for me. This is my first foray into using the stuff. I never was much of a glue guy, but the stuff (JB) has received such favorable comments here that I jumped in and bought some.
Stay tuned, the project is nearly complete. It's been fun and informative.
The doc
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Frankenstein

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Post Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:32 pm

IP, Thanks for the offers of help. I"m pretty well fixed in that department here. Made plenty of connections over the years. But I appreciate the offer. I"ll have to think about the alternator.
I'd make my life a lot easier if I didn't let my sense of esthetics interfere with what works best. I have a tough time giving up the traditional closed tin primary. I have the same problem with most forms of positive displacement induction too. I haven't seen any examples on motorcycles that please my eye.
I'm reminded of my Dad, when I first started riding bikes. I came home on my first bike, a swing arm BSA, and his comments were to the effect "h'mm yeah, that's nice". But when I rode the M20 home the first time, rigid rear, girder front, his comment was "Now that's what a motorcycle is supposed to look like". Cause that's what his bikes had been like, I suppose.
To make the long story short, I'll probably be sticking to generators for now.
:(
Dr Stick in the mud Dick
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Frankenstein

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Post Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:54 am

Hey, sure, sounds like an idea, 150 watts is cool. I don't have any metric keyway cutters though. I imagine they're easy enough to pick up. I do have an ancient lathe, a "Dalton Six" type B-4. 6" over the ways. meant to run from line shafting I'm sure. Right now I've got a 24VDC motor running it. I do have house an barn wired for ac, but the lathe predates that. And anyway, DC motors are more efficient.
As a bye the bye, my first windmill I built had 4 LUCAS alternators in a homemade housing wired up for 24 volts, driven through jackshafts and chains. I converted one of those old multiblade water pumpers. It was interesting, anyway.
Dr Dick
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Frankenstein

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Post Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:59 pm

Yeah, I can hold it in the tool post. came with some vise like adapter that fits it. I've done a few keyways, that wind genny alternator was an example
On Frankie, the rotor is a PRESS FIT on the mainshaft. Didn't want to chance weakening the mainshaft with a keyway.
Thought the whole board knew, I've been off grid since I built the house in '80. It was kerosene and propane until 1990, when I got that first windmill and some solar panels going.
look here.
http://www.geocities.com/dick_linn/wind ... 0_copy.jpg
Dr. Dick
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Frankenstein

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Post Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:48 pm

The design engineering of the Sporty oil pump project is finished. Here's a shot of the pump mounted to the motor:
Image

Here's a link to the web page with more pictures. It's all tested and works.
When I get some cam shims, I'll button up the timing cover for good.
http://www.freewebs.com/dicky_linn/80sv ... typump.htm

Dr. Dick
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cynic

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Post Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:57 pm

About a year ago I saw a add and pics for bolt on squirters to update earlier XLs, but dang if I can remember who?

I think the 1998 and newer type pump and scavenge system along with mods to keep all possible oil out of the cases is heading down the right track. Can't say what year cooling jets were first installed in the Sportsters, but I think this is why the new pump and changes were incorporated. I couldn't find a pic of the new pump, but instead of having a fully enclosed drive shaft tower it has a large vertical opening to allow oil pooled in the timing chest to flow directly into the pump.

http://www.americanthunderbike.org/tech ... ilpump.php
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Frankenstein

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Post Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:46 am

Cynic, thanks for the info and the link, It sounds as if there is another version of the oiling system, pre 98, but later than early 70's.
If you find any info on the aftermarket jet, I'm interested in seeing how others did it. I've heard about the wet sumping, but I'm taking my chances, because the flattie motor NEEDS more cooling, and all I have is oil to do the job. Thus the push to get as much oil at the pistons as possible. Via full flow bigend, the piston squirters, and the bigger pump. I'm hoping at reasonable speeds, I'll not have any problems with wet sumping, but stay tuned, this is definitely a work in progress!!
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cynic

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Post Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:31 pm

Frankenstein wrote:Cynic, thanks for the info and the link, It sounds as if there is another version of the oiling system, pre 98, but later than early 70's.
If you find any info on the aftermarket jet, I'm interested in seeing how others did it. I've heard about the wet sumping, but I'm taking my chances, because the flattie motor NEEDS more cooling, and all I have is oil to do the job. Thus the push to get as much oil at the pistons as possible. Via full flow bigend, the piston squirters, and the bigger pump. I'm hoping at reasonable speeds, I'll not have any problems with wet sumping, but stay tuned, this is definitely a work in progress!!


IIRC from reading past articles, It was the introduction of the mini-sump cases and the exact placement of the timing chest ventilation holes in the common wall that produced the biggest results in oil control. I think there has been at least 3, maybe more ventilation tweaks along with numerous pump improvements since 1957?

http://www.tecdist.com/Hot%20Shot/hotshot.htm

http://www.hotshotmotorworks.com/

Didja know? That Hot-Shot Motorworks has developed piston oil squirter for your XL engine. The squirter have been designed by Hot-Shot Motorworks to allow oil to be sprayed onto your piston to help cool the internal engine components. They will eliminate piston scuffing which has been an ongoing problem in these engines for years. By installing the "Cool Shots" into an engine it will reduce the core cylinder temperature from 440 deg. down to 240 deg. These will not only reduce the engine damaged cause by internal friction, but will also increase the reliability of your engine by not having the engine oil deteriorate as quickly.

The "Cool-Shot" piston oil squirters are available for model years 1991-1999 and 2000 to current. The "Cool-Shots" are sold as a set (F&R) and have complete instructions. Installation services available. Call for Details !!!
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cynic

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Post Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:24 pm

After digging a little more, I see the 98 pump was changed again in 02, but it's still the same basic pump as far as the scavenge and feed gearator sets used goes. The late XLs and Buells don't have open vent holes into the timing chest though, using reed valves instead. They also have bolt-on squirters.

Zippers has a three stage XL pump with built in filter that also looks like a better idea and should keep just about anything dry.
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Frankenstein

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Post Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:29 pm

Cynic, again, thanks for more info. Now I've got to find some pics or other info on these oil system variants. It's too late for this engine for now, as it's in the frame. But, I've got another BTSV I haven't started on yet, and some of this may apply to Frankie. The temperature numbers were revealing, dropping temp on the pistons from 440 to 240 deg. Of course, a Flattie isn't a sporty, and we probably are fighting different factors, but , still sounds incouraging. Thanks again
Dr. Dick

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