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HD in South Africa

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Sidewinder

Posts: 89

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:04 pm

Location: Norway

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:55 am

HD in South Africa

My U 74 from 1943 is, according to previous owner, imported from South Africa. The tires on the bike had "made in South Africa" on them. I have read some place that the South African army in fact baught a batch of 74" with sidecars.

1. Do anybody have any aditional/confirming information?
2. Would a bike sold with sidecar have VIN 43USXXXX?
3. Do anyone have a picture?

Regards from Torstein
Torstein
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MarkBranst

Posts: 343

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:19 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Thor,

Put "SOUTH AFRICA" or "SOUTH AFRICAN" into the "SEARCH" engine and you will get a lot of data that has been covered before ...

Mark
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Sidewinder

Posts: 89

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:04 pm

Location: Norway

Post Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:34 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Thanks Mark. Found some information. And also learned about the stamp that proves that the previous owner is the South African army. :)
Torstein
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Bruce Palmer III

Posts: 49

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:54 pm

Post Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:33 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Thor,

Are you saying the motor number boss is actually stamped 43US? If it is, then you have an issue. While sidecar geared U models were called US models, the S does not appear in the actual VIN.

South African Union Defense Forces (Army) Big Twin sidecar models were 41U, 42U, and 44U. They neither purchased 1943s nor received 1943s through lend-lease. However, Their 1942 contract was delayed til late in the 1942 Harley-Davidson production year so that many have 42U VINs with 1943 bottom numbers. The same way late 43WLCs have 1944 bottom numbers.

Your U may be ex-S.A. Army but either the motor was replaced with a 1943 motor from another source or, if the VIN boss is showing 43US, the VIN has been altered or the case replaced with new ones and then stamped incorrectly. What is the serial number on the sidecar chassis and what is your motor's bottom number?

One other thought about a VIN bossed stamped 43US, an original stamped 43U might have had enough space after the U for someone to cleanly insert an S into the VIN without disturbing the rest of the number. That might give the appearance of an unaltered VIN while, in fact, it is altered from the factory original.

Bruce
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Sidewinder

Posts: 89

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:04 pm

Location: Norway

Post Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:16 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Thanks for information. I have never seen a US-model either.
Torstein
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Chris Haynes

Posts: 2620

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 12:01 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:44 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

[quote="Sidewinder"]My U 74 from 1943 is, according to previous owner, imported from South Africa. The tires on the bike had "made in South Africa" on them. I have read some place that the South African army in fact baught a batch of 74" with sidecars.

1. Do anybody have any aditional/confirming information? Yup.
2. Would a bike sold with sidecar have VIN 43USXXXX? Nope.
3. Do anyone have a picture? Yup.
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milwaukee belle

User avatar

Posts: 923

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:01 am

Location: South Provence of FRANCE

Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:35 am

Re: HD in South Africa

i know this U comes from south africa .

the numbers are not altered , but theway they have been stamped is strange .
some comments about this ?
Attachments
1941 UL-S.A.D.000.jpg
1941 UL-S.A.D.000.jpg (19.97 KiB) Viewed 4978 times
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:35 am

Re: HD in South Africa

hi eric ,note the broad arrow off to the right of the number boss , that usually donates that its the property of the british army/armed forces i think as at the time south africa was a british colony its quite plausible that they used the same or similar markings . my guess is that when this arrow was stamped the quarter masters stores ,vehicle pool added the center punch marks between the numbers to stop them being altered.
regards jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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milwaukee belle

User avatar

Posts: 923

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:01 am

Location: South Provence of FRANCE

Post Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:56 am

Re: HD in South Africa

This is not éric !
this is Francis !! eh eh !

but :wink: it's the same !
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jib

Posts: 570

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Location: devon,england

Post Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:30 am

Re: HD in South Africa

sory francis, :oops: :oops: .
regards jib
Dude, check out that jibhead, he's crazy. Hasn't been sober for 40 years
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Piet Jan

User avatar

Posts: 48

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 am

Post Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:25 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

The markings are South African Army, nothing to do with UK

The U with arrow means 'Ownership by Union (of South Africa) Defence Force (UDF)'.
Image

The U with a diamond means 'Disposal by Union (of South Africa) Defence Force (UDF)'
Image

These pictures are from some firearms.
PJ
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Pa

Site Admin

Posts: 4671

Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2000 1:01 am

Location: Ohio USA

Post Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Mauser PJ ? Pa
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MarkBranst

Posts: 343

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:01 am

Location: Champaign-Urbana, IL

Post Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:26 am

Re: HD in South Africa

Piet Jan,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the "BROAD ARROW" is a historically British mark that has been apparently adapted by the "Union of South Africa" with the use of the "U". The Union of South of Africa was formed in 1910 and was (and currently still is part of the British Commonwealth), like Canada, Australia, etc. So, technically, the "BROAD ARROW" is very much a British mark.

Mark
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cane

Posts: 74

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:01 am

Location: Laguna Beach

Post Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:02 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Looks like an Enfield.
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Piet Jan

User avatar

Posts: 48

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 am

Post Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:04 pm

Re: HD in South Africa

Pa, The site I found it on discussed Portugese Mausers in this context without directly pointing to these images. I am not really a firearms expert, just found these pictures when trying to find an explanation for these markings on my 41WL cases I know came from South Africa.
Mark, thanks for the info. Although South African markings, they still do have something to do with the UK!
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strewth

Posts: 27

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:23 am

Location: Australia

Post Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:22 am

Re: HD in South Africa

I was actually doing a search for working on my linkert carb, when I came across this site and I must say, it appears to be a nice relaxed atmosphere.

I have a 1942 U-model harley complete with sidecar on the left. I bought it last year from Capetown in S.A. It is an ex military and the last owner had the skirts carefully tacked to the original guards to make it look more civilianised. It is 4 speed foward and no reverse the sidecar has a number on the bar running parallel to the bike. The number is 42-LLE2247 and appears to be an original number. Where it does get a bit weird though, is that the original case number "42Uxxxx" has been stamped out and another number stamped in. I know this to be the original engine, as I am only the third owner since the military and The bike was listed as a code 2 in rego, meaning that it had no alterations as such. I had another look for the broad arrow and there is one on it, to the left of the stamped out case number. All in all it is a great bike to ride with or without the sidecar.

I even attached a photo of her.

Image

And the weird stamped out number??????? with the broad arrow to the left.

Image

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